More powerful European power in 1900: Italian or German Empire?

More powerful European state in 1900?

  • German Empire

    Votes: 28 93.3%
  • Italian Empire

    Votes: 2 6.7%

  • Total voters
    30
Jun 2015
5,682
UK
#31
In the last 3 decades German teams won Champions League only in 2001,1997 and 2013. Italians won in 1994,1996, 2003, 2007 and 2010. Italians teams also were in 12 Champions League Finals : 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2010, 2015 and 2017. That is much more than the finals for German teams.

Italian teams also were able to win Champions Cup ( what we call now Champions League ) in 1963,1964,1965,1969,1985,1989 and 1990. Again, more than German teams.

AC Milan of the late 80's and early 90's is considered to be as one of the greatest teams in football history.

Italy defeated Germany in 1970, 1982, 2006 and 2012. In 1970 and 2006 Germany was defeated by Italy in the Semi-Final of the World Cup. In 1982 Germany was defeated in the Final of the World Cup.
In 2012 Italy also defeated Germany in the Semi-Final of Euro.

When was the last time Germany defeated Italy in the important game of the World Cup ? You need to work on your knowledge of football. Well, I have already schooled you in the thread about French military victories, so it shouldn't be a new thing for you.

Italy had a lot of famous composers as well. You've never heard about Antonio Vivaldi, Guiseppe Verdi or Antonio Salieri ?

Opera was born in Italy, by the way.

I wasn't even talking about Romans lol.
Germany won both the World Cup and European Championships more times than Italy has. For somebody claiming more knowledge, citing meaningless games when Germany has triumphed more overall in the history of international football is comical. Italy got hammered by Spain in 2012 final, even though no country in Europe has won the competition more times than Germany has. Citing old victories is nothing. as of now, Serie A is way behind the other top European leagues. Saying Germany has no culture is false. the only culture Italy claims are a people that existed on the same landmass who were loosely related to them ethnically and culturally. This is the only reason I responded to this point.

Moreover, I don't recall any old conversation here. you're some random stranger I don't need to care about. you claim you "win" without any real grounding, bar seeking strangers' favours. you're not as bright as you seem since an intelligent person doesn't assume they win anything.

You also forget Bayern Munich, who dominated the European Cup in the mid-1970s, and acknowledged as amongst the best club sides ever. A German holds the record for the most WC finals goals ever (Klose). Borussia Dortmund also has the highest average attendance in world football - how is that for "football knowledge". Italy's club stadiums are crumbling and falling apart, whilst the Allianz Arena, Westparkstadion, amongst others, stand amongst the best grounds in England (Tottenham Hotspur Stadium and Emirates Stadium). It's clear that Germany now has a holisitcally healtier and more successful football set-up than Italy.
 
Last edited:
Jun 2015
5,682
UK
#32
Romans were Italians' ancestors and their imprint on the Italian people is substantial, without even mentioning the fact that Italian is one of the closest language to Latin (excluding Sardinian phonetically speaking). That being said, Marconi, Volta, Meucci, Pugliese, Bernardi, Jacuzzi (well...), Faggin, Natta, Barsanti and Matteucci, Cristofori, D'Ascanio, Galilei, Pacinotti and the list goes on and on, all Italian inventors or people who massively contributed to mankind progress.
The best musical instruments were (and possibly are) produced in Italy (Cristofori also invented the piano, see above), most opera is written in Italian and many of the most important composers in history are Italian: Verdi, Rossini and so forth (which doesn't diminish the importance of German and Austria contribution to music history).
While Italian rivers are less picturesque than German ones, Italy has more variety of landscapes, better mountains, many more artistic, cultural and historical sites, many more "art-cities", a much more known, widespread and influential cuisine and it has definitely more art than Germany (well, it is hard to find a country in Europe that can rival with Italy).
Then, there is no even contest in this poll: Germany was much richer, had infinitely more resources, it inherited better infrastructures and schools and could count on an incredibly skilled chancellor for two decades after the unification. In all measurable terms was above Italy.
The Romans were not like modern Italians at all. The Lombards and Ostrogoths shaped what was to become modern Italy, as the Franks did in what is now France. They just built on a Roman/Latin base, but to say modern Italy is directly Roman is false.

Which variety of landscapes are these? All of Italy has a similar culture. And what is a "better mountain"? I'd argue Germany's invention of the hamburger is as big a contribution as pizza or pasta. It may not be "high-class" cuisine, but then pizza and pasta generally aren't either.

Which musical instruments are these? The trombone and trumpet are Austrian. If it's contemporary instruments, it's the Americans who invented the bass guitar, amongst others.

Germans devised many of the instruments of a modern orchestra. Whilst pianoforte is an Italian word, as is cello, many others are not Italian.
 
Nov 2009
3,883
Outer world
#33
The Romans were not like modern Italians at all. The Lombards and Ostrogoths shaped what was to become modern Italy, as the Franks did in what is now France. They just built on a Roman/Latin base, but to say modern Italy is directly Roman is false.

Which variety of landscapes are these? All of Italy has a similar culture. And what is a "better mountain"? I'd argue Germany's invention of the hamburger is as big a contribution as pizza or pasta. It may not be "high-class" cuisine, but then pizza and pasta generally aren't either.

Which musical instruments are these? The trombone and trumpet are Austrian. If it's contemporary instruments, it's the Americans who invented the bass guitar, amongst others.

Germans devised many of the instruments of a modern orchestra. Whilst pianoforte is an Italian word, as is cello, many others are not Italian.
The romans are a part of what became modern Italians: Ostrogoths, Lombards, Franks, Arabs, all these people brought their imprint on pre-existent Italic peoples but the Romans were there and still are. As for what shaped "modern Italy": the laws derives from Roman ones (through Napoleon and Justinian), the language is directly derived from Latin, the name is even more ancient, the borders are very close to the province of "Italia" and so forth. I don't know what more influence you could ask: yes, Romans were not the only force in shaping modern Italy, that's pretty obvious but they still are a fundamental one.
As for cuisine, Italian cuisine is much more than "pasta and pizza" and, while German cuisine is by no means as bad as commonly thought, there is simply no comparison (nor have I ever heard a German even suggesting the contrary). The only culinary field in which Germany is superior is beer (although there are a few good Italian beers), besides that, there is no competition.
Italian Alps are more extensive, higher and present a greater range of environments and altitudes for example; Italy has a much longer coastlines, much better seas and many more natural parks combined with a greater biodiversity; there are also different climate ranges.
The violin, the piano, the viola, the cello (the Italian word is "violoncello") have all been invented in Italy for example and the majority of music terminology stems from Italian, to the point that the original terms are still used.
Considering that Italy was the battlefield of Europe but, unlike Germany, lacked a strong nation like Prussia; that Italy is basically devoid of resources, that it had to unify many nations that were extremely different from one another (there was no standard Italian at the time, illiteracy was sky high and there had never been any Zollverein like in Germany) and considering the poor quality of Italian politicians (save a few exceptions), it is incredibly that it managed to become the medium power it was.
 
Likes: Gvelion
Sep 2016
1,102
Georgia
#38
Germany won both the World Cup and European Championships more times than Italy has. For somebody claiming more knowledge, citing meaningless games when Germany has triumphed more overall in the history of international football is comical. Italy got hammered by Spain in 2012 final, even though no country in Europe has won the competition more times than Germany has. Citing old victories is nothing. as of now, Serie A is way behind the other top European leagues. Saying Germany has no culture is false. the only culture Italy claims are a people that existed on the same landmass who were loosely related to them ethnically and culturally. This is the only reason I responded to this point.

Moreover, I don't recall any old conversation here. you're some random stranger I don't need to care about. you claim you "win" without any real grounding, bar seeking strangers' favours. you're not as bright as you seem since an intelligent person doesn't assume they win anything.

You also forget Bayern Munich, who dominated the European Cup in the mid-1970s, and acknowledged as amongst the best club sides ever. A German holds the record for the most WC finals goals ever (Klose). Borussia Dortmund also has the highest average attendance in world football - how is that for "football knowledge". Italy's club stadiums are crumbling and falling apart, whilst the Allianz Arena, Westparkstadion, amongst others, stand amongst the best grounds in England (Tottenham Hotspur Stadium and Emirates Stadium). It's clear that Germany now has a holisitcally healtier and more successful football set-up than Italy.
Those games were not meaningless lmao. How the Semi-Final and Final of the World Cup are meaningless games ? Italy defeated Germany in 2006 and then won the World Cup in the Final. Italy defeated Germany in the Final of 1982 World Cup and won the trophy.

Italy and Germany both have 4 World Cups.

We are not talking about Spain vs Italy, so the Final of 2012 doesn't count. Germany was destroyed by Croatia in 1998 and was knocked out by South Korea at the group stage in 2018.

Are you serious ? You are talking about average attendance now ? LMAO.

You've never heard about famous Inter team from the 1960's ? About Juventus from 1980's with Platini, which managed to win every trophy in existence ?

I also love how you ignored my points about Champions League.

By the way, it was you who started talking about Champions League and Serie A. Not to mention, that I've never said ,, Italian football is better than the German ''. Reread my post again and to whom I addressed it :
Italy has great culture, history, food, women, Serie A, fashion, countryside and cinema.
So Renaissance Italy is just ,, people that existed on the same landmass who were loosely related to them ethnically '' ? Are you serious right now ? The same can be said about Germany then, by your own logic. I also never said that Germany had no culture.

You have a bad memory, if you don't remember old conversation. Is France the most successful military power in European history ?

Also, the only arrogant and ,, not so bright '' here is you.
 
Last edited:
Jan 2017
1,205
Durham
#39
The German Empire, there is no metric that can describe by how much. Italy struggled against declining Austria and didn't even have an empire yet, save for some small colonies in East Africa. Germany was an industrial and military giant that rivaled the British Empire.
I don't think that's true at all. While Germany was an economic powerhouse locally, France could draw on the resources of her colonies around the world.

In 1900, the French were Britain's competitors, not the Germans.
 
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
17,882
SoCal
#40
I don't think that's true at all. While Germany was an economic powerhouse locally, France could draw on the resources of her colonies around the world.

In 1900, the French were Britain's competitors, not the Germans.
How much resources did France's colonies have that we known about back then? I mean, obviously there was the manpower (though was the quality of it similar to that of Frenchmen?), but what else?

She was attractive in her day but I prefer women with long, flowing hair.:D
You mean like Rapunzel? ;)
 
Likes: Rodger