Most humiliating military defeat in history.

Aug 2018
375
Southern Indiana
#41
Do you have any source for the militia running? There was an order to retreat eventually, which basically meant to run. Many of the casualties were during and after the retreat. The soldiers had to make there way 100+ miles to US controlled territory. There were 97% casualty rates, killed or wounded. I don't think any prisoners were taken. So it seems unlikely that many ran before ordered to.
There was a very large assortment of camp followers, including prostitutes, girlfriends and wives, suttlers and more. Many of those people tried to run but were killed.
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,107
#43
There was a very large assortment of camp followers, including prostitutes, girlfriends and wives, suttlers and more. Many of those people tried to run but were killed.
You think they might have taken the women prisoner.

The order to retreat was made in a situation where there was no possibility of an orderly retreat. So they were really ordered to run. Otherwise the whole force would have been wiped out.
 
Nov 2010
7,594
Cornwall
#44
Annual 1921 - biggest defeat by a modern western army against what you might call an unofficial and rather transient army of locals!

Such was the chaos in Spanish official and military circles at the time that the dead were, I think I recall, somewhere between 13000 and 17000, maybe more.

2 major reasons for the unknown elements are firstly it was never known which local forces died and which melted away to join the enemy. Secondly there was a culture of 'ghost soldiers' and local accounting. So there were more soldiers on the payroll than actually existed - obviously the payroll just went to the local officers in charge

Identifying bodies was not practical, to say the least
 
Likes: Frank81
Aug 2018
375
Southern Indiana
#45
You think they might have taken the women prisoner.

The order to retreat was made in a situation where there was no possibility of an orderly retreat. So they were really ordered to run. Otherwise the whole force would have been wiped out.
St.Clair, despite the obvious mistake of not preparing for a surprise attack, fought heroically during the battle which lasted for three hours. During the attack he suffered from a severe attack of gout and was unable to even stand, his aides got him a mule to sit on while he directed his forces. St.Clair's forces were surrounded and the survivors only escaped because of a desperate bayonet charge broke through Little Turtle's lines. The survivors eventually made it to Cincinnati where the entire town was devastated by the loss, practically everyone knew somebody that had gone on the campaign, practically all of the camp followers (about 200) were killed.
 
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macon

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
3,931
Slovenia, EU
#47
The Samnites had a choice. Let the Romans go slaughter them. They chose the middle ground; let them go but absolutely humiliate them. Didn’t work out so well!
If a Samnite leader I would chose Bai Qi's way and kill all Romans. After that took some Roman lands.
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,107
#49
Sinclair, despite the obvious mistake of not preparing for a surprise attack, fought heroically during the battle which lasted for three hours.
Technically, his name was St. Clair, Sinclair is basically a corruption of the same name, possibly related to the Reformation. It is a Scottish name, but originally Norman.
 

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