Most major US cities not originally British or US

Dec 2014
6,616
Spain
#72
Once again you miss the point in your desperation to insert Spain into everything.

1- I know Portuguese were the first. But that doesn’t stop the fact that the oldest church in Nagasaki was built by two French missionaries.

2- obviously Nagasaki is a completely Japanese City in origin that was the point. The fact some other community built a church there does not mean they founded the city.

3. And finally you are WRONG. San Fransisco Bay Area WAS Chosen as the name by Spaniards. As was the name used by the small fort and the mission.
But the town that became San Fransisco IS NOT THOSE places. That was built by Richardson and De Hoya and had a different name. It was renamed by a US naval officer. Bartlett I think. AFTER it became American. He chose the name San Fransisco due to the other places nearby. You see the Presidio was several miles north of the town, and the mission several miles to the south.

Not.. simply you wrote about Nagasaki... and it was a mistake.. the first church was built by portuguese

And this about portuguese-Spanish in Japan.. the two first Japanese embassies to Europe.. were to Spain... to visit to Philip II and Philip III... if you said French arrived sooner and Henry IV was more famous in Japan than Philip II and his son Philip III... Why the Japanese embassies were to El Escorial? and not to Paris?

Tensho Embassy (1582 - 1590). They arrived to Lisboa where they met Philip II´s nephew.. from Lisboa to Evora, from Evora they travelled to Madrid where they met to Philip II (and from Madrid, they travelled to El Escorial). From El Escorial they went to Barcelona and from Barcelona to Pisa in Italy and from Pisa to Rome where they met to Gregorious XIII and Sixto V. From Rome, they travelled to Venice and from Venice to Barcelona, from Barcelona to Madrid.. where they had a new meeting with Philip II. From Madrid to Lisboa and from Lisboa to Japan.

As you can see.. not France at all....

Keicho Embassy (1613 - 1620). From Japan to Acapulco, from Acapulco - Ciudad de Mexico - Guadalajara - Zacatecas - Cuernavaca - Veracruz. From Veracruz they sailed to Sanlucar de Barrameda (near Cadis) - Coria del Rio (near Seville) - Seville - Cordova - Toledo - Madrid where they met Philip III - Barcelona - Genoa - Rome where they met to Paulus V - From Rome to genoa from Genoa to Barcelona, from Barcelona to Madrid from Madrid to Seville and from Seville to New Spain and from New Spain to Japan.

However few samurais remained in Spain given birth to the surname Japón (Japan). In a little spanish village, Coria del Río they are 830 people surnamed Japan...in 1989.

So, the Keicho Embassy didn´t go to France...

I don´t want to insert Spain in everything.. it is you who insert France without logic... not dear Edric.. France didn´t arrive to Japan sooner than Portugal or Spain. (and never to Nagasaki)

Regards.

If you would have said about Kazakistan.. I would have not added nothing....
 
Dec 2014
6,616
Spain
#74
You're shifting the goalposts. Up until now we have been discussing the area which is now the United States of America, not the continent of North America. I can troll you and say that this is despite the fact that the Spaniards were by far the most brutal colonial power in the Americas, but I won't go down that road...
Can you see my dear Edric.. the Hidden agenda?

What I say.. Mr Abraham is clear.... if San francisco, Los Angeles, Tucsón, Alburquerque, SAn José, San Agustín, Santa Fé etc etc etc didn´t have 200.000 inhabitants, 1 million, 150.000 or 200.000 ,it was only because Spaniards have others places to settle (and mostly Havana, Ciudad de Mexico and Lima)... it that areas would have been the only place to stablish the Spanish population.... you can be sure.. how big it would have been San Agustín, Santa Fé or Alburquerque...

Thanks very much for making public the hidden agenda... many times I don´t agree with Edric.. but he is a gentleman and intellectually very honest ... but my nose knew who you were. Thanks for discovering you.

The city of San Agustin in Florida in a 16th Century map



San Agustin was a Fort, a chuch and few houses around the fort.


And San Francisco´s cathedral




I know Republic of California´s flag
x Flag?
Russian flag
Castille and Lion´s flag
English flag?
Spanish flag
Mexican flag
and USA Flag.
 
Jul 2019
554
New Jersey
#75
For the record, I edited out that last unhelpful sentence in my previous post shortly after writing it. My apologies. We all have our salty days.

That being said, are we agreed that Spain had a negligible effect on the settlement of what is now the United States?
 
Likes: Iraq Bruin
Feb 2010
5,070
Canary Islands-Spain
#76
For the record, I edited out that last unhelpful sentence in my previous post shortly after writing it. My apologies. We all have our salty days.

That being said, are we agreed that Spain had a negligible effect on the settlement of what is now the United States?
How could you agreed that no sense? The major urban network of southwest US, from Lousiana to California, is basically Spanish, even road infrastructures follow the original paths the Spanish used in the area

It is somewhat similar to the relation between Roman Britain and Anglo-Saxon Britain, but to a regional level
 
Likes: martin76
Jul 2019
554
New Jersey
#77
How could you agreed that no sense? The major urban network of southwest US, from Lousiana to California, is basically Spanish, even road infrastructures follow the original paths the Spanish used in the area
The actual number of Spaniards populating that vast area was negligible, and huge swathes were populated only by tiny missions. The Spanish never intensively colonized within the present United States. I'm not saying there were no influences - surveying methods and land tenure laws in the southwest definitely show Spanish influence - but ultimately the demographic and economic activity which made the southwest what it is was almost entirely non-Spanish.
 
Jul 2011
6,280
#78
You're shifting the goalposts. Up until now we have been discussing the area which is now the United States of America, not the continent of North America.
I agree with that statement. That Spanish America was much larger and richer in the 17th and 18th centuries is irrelevant to the discussion. Your statement about Spanish being more brutal is ridiculous. California was majority native American when it became part of the US and the native American population there decreased by 85% in the next 50 years.

My point about the Swedish church in Philadelphia was not mainly that it was the first church in Pennsylvania, but that it was the first Swedish church in Pennsylvania. That indicates that Philadelphia was already a center of the Swedish population in Pennsylvania when the Quakers arrived. I also showed the Philadelphia flag in the OP, which is mostly the Swedish flag.

I agree that the US became what it is under US rule, not under British rule and certainly not under French of Spanish rule.
 
May 2016
5,652
Portugal
#79
My comments weren't directed towards you; they were directed at the member I quoted. :)
Thanks for the clarification.

1- I know Portuguese were the first. But that doesn’t stop the fact that the oldest church in Nagasaki was built by two French missionaries.
And who are those two missionaries?

The Jesuits build several churches there in the 16th century and beginning of the 17th, not sure if they were French. Most of the Jesuits on the Portuguese Empire were or Portuguese, or from the other kingdoms of the Iberian Peninsula (Saint Francis Xavier was from Navarra) or Italians. There weren’t many French. I don’t even know if we can identify most of the places, since all were destroyed with the persecutions in the 17th century.

The Dominicans and the Franciscans arrived somewhat later, mostly sponsored by Castile, and I think that they also build churches.

Unless you are referring to a church built in the 19th century: Basilica of the Twenty-Six Holy Martyrs of Japan (Nagasaki) - Wikipedia

that can be the oldest still existing, since the others were destroyed, but it was far from being the oldest being erected.
 
Likes: martin76
Dec 2014
6,616
Spain
#80
The actual number of Spaniards populating that vast area was negligible, and huge swathes were populated only by tiny missions. The Spanish never intensively colonized within the present United States. I'm not saying there were no influences - surveying methods and land tenure laws in the southwest definitely show Spanish influence - but ultimately the demographic and economic activity which made the southwest what it is was almost entirely non-Spanish.
The routes to the West was done by Spanish scouts... the different routes.... Spanish trails... and about economic you are right... save you think in the products Spaniards planted in North America (from Rice to wheat) not to talk about Cowboy... english translation of the word Vaquero. The English word cowboy was a direct English translation of vaquero, a Spanish word for an individual who managed cattle while mounted on horseback. It was derived from vaca, meaning "cow," which came from the Latin word vacca.

About cities in USA... most of them were founded by USA, second Spain or France, Third: France or Spain. Fourth: Britain . And the oldest city in USA and the oldest capital in USA both were stablished by spaniards.

Who say here Jamestown is older than San Agustín?