most opressive pre modern state or nation ?

#1
What state or nation? would in the pre modern era (before the 19th century ) be considered the most repressive, by that I mean the most harshest and restrictive laws, the most despotic government not just on paper but also in practice and the most inclined to use extreme violence to supress dissent. I don't think any state before the 20th century could have the ability to be totalitarian though so I don't think that is a good term to describe any sort of pre modern state with a despotic government
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,488
Spain
#2
This is supposed to be a historical forum ... so it would be appreciated if historical concepts are used appropriately ... especially when it is something as simple as historical ages ...

PRE-MODERN is never before 19th Century.. it is before 15th Century or as the best...before 16th Century... about your question.... maybe China.... Not Savoranola because this man built a totalitarian state in late 15th Century... so... it is not Pre-Modern..but Modern.
 
Sep 2012
3,841
Bulgaria
#3
Despot and related to it despotism are rather derogatory terms today, thanks to Montesquieu it seems. Despot is a late byzantine/roman court title introduced by Manuel I Komnenos and used also by Serbians, Bulgarians and even by the short-lived Crusader Romania. Despot and tyrant are originally Greek words, whilst Dictator is latin one. The evolution of these words in the English language / their etymology / panta rhei

despot | Origin and meaning of despot by Online Etymology Dictionary
dictator | Origin and meaning of dictator by Online Etymology Dictionary
tyrant | Origin and meaning of tyrant by Online Etymology Dictionary
 
Nov 2016
884
Germany
#5
PRE-MODERN is never before 19th Century.. it is before 15th Century or as the best...before 16th Century..
"Pre-modern" is before the 18th century (enlightenment) at the earliest. You can´t call centuries "modern" when thousands of women and men were tortured and burned alive as alleged witches and sorcerers. But even in the 18th century such and similar things happened (Inquisition). So to say "before the 19th century" makes sense.

Modern?

1564829363368.png

Modern?

1650: Anne Greene survives being hanged, pulled, stomped

1564829900573.png

Modern?

1564829989025.png
 
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martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,488
Spain
#6
I can see...

There are only a pair of chance: or The conception is Political Propaganda or maybe it is because England, and the tiny Germanic States (how much? 300?) were in Medieval Age til 19th Century... that´s the reason because in Southern Europe.... Modern Era begun 15th-16th Century and not in 19th Century...or maybe it is the racial concept of the "Geschichte" .... no dear... the Modern Age begun in some moment between the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople in 1453 and the Spanish discovery of a New Continent in the West Hemisphere.... So, the Modern Era for the civilizated people in Europe ( I am not talking about barbarians, whatever they are) begun late 15th Century.... and the Pre-Modern Era begun in Italy around 13th-14th Century. Maybe Barbarians didn´t begin their modernization till 19th Century....

So... Era Moderna (Spanish): late 15th-18th Century
Storia Moderna (Italian): late 15th-18th Century
Idade Moderna (Portuguese): Late 15th - 18th Century
Époque Moderne (French). Late 15th - 18th Century

it is funny you say not Modern age because some Catholics and some Protestan burn people... and you put a 19th Century Drawings... Ok.. by the same reason... not a drawing....a not hardcore photo...


So.. not Modern Age from 19th to 20th Century.... according with you "logic"... Modern?




It would have been better only to say that Mr wigglywaffles simply wrong when he wrote "Pre-Modern" age before 19th Century.... but your? "Racial Geschitech conception" don´t tolerate that other peoples (not only the "pure Germanic Blood") made UNIVERSAL HISTORY... and they changed the Planet... culturally, geographically, and created a new era, the Modern one, which would be gradually replaced, from the Eighteenth century, especially the Nineteenth century .. through the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution ... in this case yes with a predominant rol of Great Britain, USA, and, the German States (Contemporanean Age).

To persevere in error is not a sign of Intellectual acuity.

Maybe Mr Wiggly wanted to say totalitarian system in Modern Age.. or Pre-Modern Age (13th-15th Century)... but we can´t invent the history... and yes... It is not necessary to be born in Germanic Countries to make Universal History.... not matter is they are named Mehmet II, Vasco Da Gama, Hérnan Cortes, Magallanes-El Cano, Da vinci, Rafaele, Donatello, Miguel Angelo... Medicis, Sforza, Este, School of Salamanca.... etc etc etc
So what make one Age became in other age.. are not matched with the "Racial Conception of "der Geschichte "...

Good day

By the way.. Humanism didnt´appear in 19th Century... not even in 18th Century!
 
#7
This is supposed to be a historical forum ... so it would be appreciated if historical concepts are used appropriately ... especially when it is something as simple as historical ages ...

PRE-MODERN is never before 19th Century.. it is before 15th Century or as the best...before 16th Century... about your question.... maybe China.... Not Savoranola because this man built a totalitarian state in late 15th Century... so... it is not Pre-Modern..but Modern.
the reason I used pre 19th century in this case is that the way a lot of countries were governed all over the world before this time can hardly be called "modern" and I couldn't really find another better term to describe them
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,710
Sydney
#8
the Qin state was pretty horrific as far as repression is concerned , the burning of books is an absolute classic
ibn Saud created Saudi Arabia on the back of the Ikhwan , a fanatical movement which would make Al Qaeda seems downright civilized
 
Likes: macon
Feb 2014
289
Miami
#9
Within rural estates, the polish-Lithuanian nobility were oppressive to the serfs.

Same for the Russian tsardom when they enforced serfdom and turned the poor classes from freemen to all but slaves in name and bound them to the land except death do they part.
 

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