Most painful territorial losses

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
19,760
SoCal
#62
For Italy, after WW II, the loss of the historically Venetian Istria and Dalmatia was not easy to digest. Overall considering what happened to Italians in those lands [the tragedy of the "Foibe" and the exodus of the Italians to the Republic].

Anyway such a loss has been metabolized and today Italy is not going to invade Croatia and Slovenia ...
Excellent point! That said, though, Italy was able to keep Trieste--Italy's eastern Crown Jewel, so to speak. :) Overall, while Italy and Japan lost some of their core territory as a result of WWII, their treatment was extremely mild in comparison to Germany's treatment.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
19,760
SoCal
#64
BTW, I suppose that Transylvania, South Tyrol, and Moldova could also qualify for the purposes of my scenario here. Transylvania had a lot of Hungarians (mostly Szekelys, but they identified as Hungarians) and was associated with Hungary for centuries, South Tyrol was solidly German-majority when it was given to Italy for strategic reasons in 1918-1919, and Moldova is heavily Romanian-majority but as a result of decades of Soviet rule, they developed their own Moldovan identity and mostly don't want to rejoin Romania.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
19,760
SoCal
#66
It could have, but maybe they tought that British controlled Egypt was more important than some future Gaza overpoulation problem.
That's probably a good point.

In any case, though, I provided some alternative solutions to this problem. Also, FTR, I was thinking of overpopulation in Israel as well as in Gaza.
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
26,582
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#67
Excellent point! That said, though, Italy was able to keep Trieste--Italy's eastern Crown Jewel, so to speak. :) Overall, while Italy and Japan lost some of their core territory as a result of WWII, their treatment was extremely mild in comparison to Germany's treatment.
Absolutely true. Italy was a particular case:

on a side at Washington there was a bit of concern about the not irrelevant Communist presence in the country [after the scission from the Socialist Party, the Communist Party run the resistence against the Nazi occupation after the armistice gaining an enormous popular support: there was who waited for Stalin and USSR Red Army ...], but on an other side Italians, after 1943, fought with the allies and then the Italian American lobby played a great role in persuading the American establishment to help Italians to rebuild their country.

About Japan, I don't think Americans treated it so better than Germany. A part the military occupation, also Japan knew its own trial for war crimes [International Military Tribunal for the Far East - Wikipedia].
 
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Likes: Futurist
#68
The Carthaginian loss of Sicily in 241 BC and Sardinia in 237 BC. Carthage had held hegemony over parts of Sicily and Sardinia since the sixth century BC, and had fought numerous wars in the interests of those territorial holdings. But in the space of a few years they lost both territories to the Romans. In the process, they lost two essential parts of their mercantile empire, territories that had allowed Carthage to dominate key sections of the east-west and Tyrrhenian trade routes. The loss of Sicily ultimately led to a substantial change in policy whereby, under the leadership of the Barcids, Carthage would not rebuild their maritime dominance and instead focus on a land-based expansionist empire in Spain. The loss of Sardinia made the expansion into Spain all the more justified and rubbed salt in the wound, since Rome seized Sardinia outside the context of war, in defiance of the Treaty of Lutatius and with weak justification. These losses and the Carthaginian responses eventually led to the Hannibalic War.
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
26,582
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#70
BTW, I suppose that Transylvania, South Tyrol, and Moldova could also qualify for the purposes of my scenario here. Transylvania had a lot of Hungarians (mostly Szekelys, but they identified as Hungarians) and was associated with Hungary for centuries, South Tyrol was solidly German-majority when it was given to Italy for strategic reasons in 1918-1919, and Moldova is heavily Romanian-majority but as a result of decades of Soviet rule, they developed their own Moldovan identity and mostly don't want to rejoin Romania.
About South Tyrol, some years ago, in Austria the right leaning political forces wanted to write in the Austrian constitution that Tyrol is all Austrian. To write it in the constitution would have been really near to a declaration of war to Italy ... Anyway the matter is still well alive : the last move was to suggest to offer Austrian passports to the citizens of South Tyrol [Italy and Austria at odds over South Tyrol dual-citizenship].
 
Likes: Futurist