Most powerful country in Mainland Europe in 1914-1915?

Most powerful mainland European power in 1914?

  • France

    Votes: 4 8.9%
  • German Empire

    Votes: 39 86.7%
  • Russia

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Austria-Hungary

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Spain

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ottoman-Empire

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    45

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,247
#31
Well,Red Baron is the greates ace of WW1.Also Germans had more aces than France with approx 400 compare 178 for France.Lists of World War I flying aces - Wikipedia What are you talking about dude? France was produced more aircraft and tanks than Germany(because Germans not interested tanks and they lacked in rubber)but how about production of artillery and small arms?Germany had not good artillery in 1918?Are you kidding?Operation Michael was largest artillery barrage of WW1 by far.6600 German Guns and 3500 Mortars fired 3.5 million shells in just 5 hours.Germans had more artillery guns than France-Britain combined(Germans had 19.000 active pieces in the end of the War while France had only 10.000 and Britain had only 6700) in time of Armistice even destruction of 6700 German pieces in Hundred Days Offensive .
(Just watch this video and think again).Germany produced 7.2 million rifle during 1914-1918 while France produced only 2.8 million rifle(but imported so many rifles from USA)and Britain produced about 3.9 million.So,Germans produced more rifles than Britain-France combined.Rifles | International Encyclopedia of the First World War (WW1) Also Germans produced more heavy machine guns than any other country.Germany captured half of France's heavy industry and production of steel-coal in 1914.France imported so many raw materials to war production from US and British Empire.Without this imports France would be collapsed in 1915-16.France's nominal GDP nearly half of Germany's nominal GDP.Central Powes produced more artillery pieces than the Allies.Why the Battle of the Somme marks a turning point of World War I (So,Central Powers produced more guns than Allies about more %20-25.)French air force in 1918 was largest air force in the World and they built best tanks of the war but please accept Germans had most powerful army by firepower during 1914-1918.
Several pints how many rifles did France import from the US not that many. The US simply was not prepared for mass production of rifles. the French and Russians bought a bunch of rfifles but not in really huge numbers. The British tried to but the US manufactures, insisted the British actualy build and own the production lines (they were worried abouyt the war ending) The British set it up to produce the pattern 14 but production took forever to scale up. The British actually got notthat many. The British sold the lines back to the US for a song whenthe US entered teh war and the lines actually prodcued more firles for the US than other US production.

Whats the actual sources for those figures. I think the 1918 figures are just comparing western front numbers for the artillery which is not the entire story (how much artillery was on otehr fronts). There are lies , there are *damned* lies and then there are statistics. I'm yet to find anything decent of artillery figures. Number of artillery men, number of shells, spare barrels produced (?? unsure is thius is a thing but barrels were replaced farily often and how is these reflected in production it's the sort of detail I want) . I'm failing sure the Entente outproduced the
teh central powers pretty significantly in shells.

Production is also skewed to doctrine and operataional enviroment. the Germans were defending a lot. more heavy machine guns. The entente prodced , tanks, various sqaud automatic wepaons because their needs on the attack were different.

It;s pretty arguable FT was the best tank of the war. Depends on what you need the tank for. Trench assualt, teh Birtish tanks were a lot better. People get carried away with the turrent anad say it showed the way of teh future as it was more recognisibly like future tanks. You could equally argue it really was teh forerunner of the under powered 2 man tankettes of teh 1920s /1930s for some natons that were pretty much a dead end.

As for aces, this might well had more of an "ace system" they did in ww2. The numbers of aces coiuld be the result of opertaional doctrine and pilot mangement. (the rotation of experinced polits back to training). It really probably sys more about these things that being soem measure of quality (ww2 these were the factors I'm unsure of ww1)
 
Likes: Gvelion
May 2018
755
Michigan
#32
The German Empire. How is this even up for discussion? They almost defeated the French and captured Paris in a couple of weeks, and that was at the same time as they had mobilized massive amounts of troops on the other side of the continent to fight the enormous power of the Russian Empire (which they later actually defeated).
Yeah, the Schlieffen plan was (IIRC) "one British Army at the Marne" away from nearly succeeding, while Germany was deploying against Russia. Any smart officer at the General Staff had to be aware that they would basically be carrying Austria, given its woefully sorry state.

I do find it funny that in Indy Neidell's "The Great War' series, he actually alleges that the British Army was the best army in 1914. Now, Indy isn't saying it was the most powerful (clearly by numbers, they were not). But he alleges that the superior level of training, professionalism and morale made them the best trained, best disciplined army in 1914. I am not sure I agree with this (given the legendary skill of the German General Staff), but there is evidence that backs Indy's claim fairly well.

I suppose we are specifying "Mainland Europe" to exclude Britain and the British Empire, which was clearly the "USA of post WWII" in 1914.
 
Feb 2014
294
Miami
#33
In 1914, the Germans were gunning down French lines as the French march in napoleanic formation to their death and they entrapped a large Russian army and obliterated the northern formation of the Russians. The Russians did at least destroy the Austrians who were lead by probably the most incompetent general of the War, Feldmarschall Franz Xaver Josef Graf Conrad von Hötzendorf
 
Sep 2016
1,141
Georgia
#35
Yeah, the Schlieffen plan was (IIRC) "one British Army at the Marne" away from nearly succeeding, while Germany was deploying against Russia.
That ,, British Army '' was able to play an important role, only because of the French 6th army and the efforts of French 5th army before that. Guess they don't teach that in Anglo-Saxon world.

Not to mention, that Germans defeated Russians at Tannenberg without those 2 Corps from the Western Front. They arrived later.
 
Sep 2016
1,141
Georgia
#36
In 1914, the Germans were gunning down French lines as the French march in napoleanic formation to their death
I guess you've never heard about Franco - Prussian War in 1870 - 1871, Crimean War in 1853 - 1856 and Franco-Austrian War in 1859 ? You do know that the last European war for French wasn't in 1815 ?
 
Feb 2014
294
Miami
#37
I guess you've never heard about Franco - Prussian War in 1870 - 1871, Crimean War in 1853 - 1856 and Franco-Austrian War in 1859 ? You do know that the last European war for French wasn't in 1815 ?
Yes, I’m quite aware of the other wars. The French were whipped well in the Franco Prussian war. I don’t see how that has to do with the French marching their armies in columns with bright color uniforms and out dated guns into the machine guns and artillery of the Germans in 1914.
 
May 2018
755
Michigan
#38
That ,, British Army '' was able to play an important role, only because of the French 6th army and the efforts of French 5th army before that. Guess they don't teach that in Anglo-Saxon world.

Not to mention, that Germans defeated Russians at Tannenberg without those 2 Corps from the Western Front. They arrived later.
No, they teach it. I just surprised someone didn't try to jump in with that quip much sooner.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,247
#39
Yeah, the Schlieffen plan was (IIRC) "one British Army at the Marne" away from nearly succeeding, while Germany was deploying against Russia. Any smart officer at the General Staff had to be aware that they would basically be carrying Austria, given its woefully sorry state.

I do find it funny that in Indy Neidell's "The Great War' series, he actually alleges that the British Army was the best army in 1914. Now, Indy isn't saying it was the most powerful (clearly by numbers, they were not). But he alleges that the superior level of training, professionalism and morale made them the best trained, best disciplined army in 1914. I am not sure I agree with this (given the legendary skill of the German General Staff), but there is evidence that backs Indy's claim fairly well.

I suppose we are specifying "Mainland Europe" to exclude Britain and the British Empire, which was clearly the "USA of post WWII" in 1914.
The British had superior infantry doctrine and training over the Germans in 1914. There Battalaion commanders nearly all had actual battle experince. Their cavalry had made the transitiion to mounted infantry. The Germans still belived in attacking in mass groups in the open. The Germans were better in artillery. The Briitish army was small but there was a reaonsable argument that it was better man for man than the German. The Boers gave the British a much needed kick in the arse that led to actual reforms.

The German General staff, it;s skils are legendary, but it's also a deeply flawed institution. Operational slick, strategically and logistically dumb. Much like ww2.
 
Likes: frogsofwar

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,247
#40
In 1914, the Germans were gunning down French lines as the French march in napoleanic formation to their death and they entrapped a large Russian army and obliterated the northern formation of the Russians. The Russians did at least destroy the Austrians who were lead by probably the most incompetent general of the War, Feldmarschall Franz Xaver Josef Graf Conrad von Hötzendorf
The French were not marching in lines Napoleonic style. There were charging in dense mobs, Just like the Germans when they attacked in 1914.

Conrad well he's up there but Cardona (itlay) has him covered for mine.
 

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