Muslim Iberian peninsula

LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
And if the Iberian peninsula it was muslim. The new world existed today. Suggestion

United States America Canadá Brazil Argentina etc.etc.

Have you ever thought about this?

Say your opinion.
 
Last edited:
Feb 2014
1,429
Asia
Well, despite Spain and Portugal as Muslim countries, New World would still be existing but definitely very different.

I think rather than Portugal and Spain, the lead would be taken by Holland and then followed by England and France.

Now, how Holland, England and France would have shaped New World is very wide topic. But one thing is sure that many Native American polities would have survived for long and some of them would be surviving till today. And definitely no Latin-America as Native American languages would be dominating over most of what is Latin-America today.

So, US-Canada would very likely exist as Anglo-French, I love to see them as New England and New France.

Brazil would develop as New Holland, a Dutch colony; and Argentina would very likely be Qullasuyu ?

Back there in Europe, Spain and Portugal might end up as the colonies of France and instead of European Union they would be the part of Maghreb Union.
 

Frank81

Ad Honorem
Feb 2010
5,140
Canary Islands-Spain
Considering the sheer weight of Iberian history, the shockwaves into World history would be impossible to calculate.

Before going too far, the unification of Iberia into a Muslim state should take place in the 8th century, supressing the Cantabrian rebellion and checking the Carolingian expansion, two hard task.

A second period of possible unification would be late 10th century, during the campaigns of Almanzor.

Two easy things to consider:

*The capital of Al-Andalus would located somewhere in the Guadalquivir valley, well Cordoba, well Seville.

*Let not exclude the possibility of more than one Muslim state, probably three: one bigger in the centre south, one to the northeast centered in Zaragoza, another to the northwest, of uncertain centre. The two later could be independent because of the difficulty to keep military areas under control (as it happened).


Although Al-Andalus had a fleet and good sailors, the discovery and expansion wouldn't take place.

1. Al-Andalus was well connected to the East, so no barrier for the obtention of spices. Actually, it would trade it to Western Europe via Gibraltar.

2. There wouldn't be a need to get gold, since Al-Andalus enjoyed open trade with Africa.

3. Al-Andalus didn't develop and independent caste warrior as feudal Christian kingdoms did. Actually, the aristocracy was checked by the development of a central state. So no conquistadors in masse.


Some other factors:

1. Agriculture would prospere in a higher degree. Christians used to neglect the very complex hydraulic works of Muslims, favouring a more extensive agriculture. This means a higher population and more economic input.

2. Trade would be extremely developed, the Peninsula acting as a network between Atlantic Europe and the Mediterranean, as it did historically. However, links with Africa and the East would be extensive

3. Politically, the state would be charaterized by centralization and beaurocratization, the army being composed of paid troops and volunteers of the faith, as it happened.

4. Direct political involvement in North Africa would be great, and of greater impact than Christian Iberia. Expansion north of the Pyrenees, considering the nature of the state, would be improbable.

5. Most probably the country would be subjected to devastating Crusades, particularly the northeast, but not only.

Without the Spanish and Portuguese discoveries, without the colonization of America and its consequences, without the Iberian involvement in the Religious Wars or against the Ottomans... The world would be unthinkable.
 

LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
Well, despite Spain and Portugal as Muslim countries, New World would still be existing but definitely very different.

I think rather than Portugal and Spain, the lead would be taken by Holland and then followed by England and France.

Now, how Holland, England and France would have shaped New World is very wide topic. But one thing is sure that many Native American polities would have survived for long and some of them would be surviving till today. And definitely no Latin-America as Native American languages would be dominating over most of what is Latin-America today.

So, US-Canada would very likely exist as Anglo-French, I love to see them as New England and New France.

Brazil would develop as New Holland, a Dutch colony; and Argentina would very likely be Qullasuyu ?

Back there in Europe, Spain and Portugal might end up as the colonies of France and instead of European Union they would be the part of Maghreb Union.
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I think rather than Portugal and Spain, the lead would be taken by Holland and then followed by England and France.
....

In what century the discoveries by the France Dutch English would take place.
And of these three countries which would be the first to have the initiative of the discoveries.

No one guesses the future
.....................................................

Back there in Europe, Spain and Portugal might end up as the colonies of France and instead of European Union they would be the part of Maghreb Union

On this topic, you do not know what you say, and you do not even know the cultures of the two Iberian countries.
 
Last edited:
Oct 2016
692
On a magic carpet
I think the effects of changing something big like this would be incalculable. All of later world history would be totally different. It's almost impossible to predict.

If we stay as close to the history as possible, a complete conquest was possible until about 1000AD. Almanzor's armies conquered and sacked virtually every Christian city in the Iberian peninsula.

He organized and took part in 57 campaigns, and was victorious in all of them. Almanzor's armies sacked Barcelona in 985. He sacked Leon in 988 and Santiago de Compostela in 997 and many other cities including Burgos and Pamplona. By 1002, Iberia stood on the brink of total Muslim domination.

If we simply assume that Almanzor's successors continued his policy and the Fitna of al Andalus never occurs, then it's quite possible the frontier settles on the Cantabrian mountains. If this can be maintained for a century or more, eventually the overwhelming might of the country means the conquest of the remaining strip of land on the north coast is inevitable.

Thus in this alternate scenario, the caliphate continues to exist and exerts its control on the north, while the Christian states collapse and are largely conquered by 1050. Perhaps a rump state in Asturias lingers on for another century or so, before being absorbed some time between 1100 and 1300.

The immediate effect on western Europe is significant. Much of Europe's path towards the Renaissance relied on learning gained in places like Toledo which were conquered by Leon Castile. If this never happens, Europe may have remained behind the Islamic countries for centuries. Or it may have simply evolved at a slower pace.

Europe's rise as a colonial power likely never happens. With a Muslim Spain and Portugal, the conditions that led to the European empires never exist. The effect on the world is incalculable. By the present day, every aspect of the world we know would be so drastically changed that it becomes impossible to say anything meangful, because the entire world system we know would not exist.

Quite possibly, the countries with all the wealth and power today would be the Muslim world, while Europe would be colonised and culturally subservient to the Muslim world. The exact opposite of the present day, in other words.
 

Dreamhunter

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
7,486
Malaysia
A Muslim Iberia wud hv been nearly connected & contiguous with the other Muslim European regions under the sway of the Ottoman Turkish empire, i.e. Bosnia-Herzegovina, Albania, Kosovo, the Sandzak region of Serbia, and substantial parts of Montenegro, Macedonia Skopje & northern Greece, through to the core Ottoman territory itself. Add those to the Muslim parts of the old Russia, and the entire combined Muslim sector cud hv spanned easily half of Europe, and might hv been much more capable of withstanding the onslaught of Christian Western Europe on the Ottoman empire, plus absorbing & retaining additional borderline Romanche, Germanic & Slavic lands.

Just my personal speculation.
 
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