Myanmar and Hungary leaders ''agree'' on ''Muslim population challenge''

Baldtastic

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,594
Londinium
I'm sorry, it seems You didn't read what I was saying, or didn't understood what I was saying.

I was talking about a cultural phenomenon and that isn't "acts, beliefs and attributes".

Cultural appropriation is a phenomenon present since human kind had more than one culture and it's present in all domains of culture.

Christianism appropriated the Old Testament, which was the Holly Book of Jewish people. Muslim appropiated parts of the Jewish and Christian religion. For example.

And I gave You more than one, examples. If I can't make You understand the difference between a phenomenon and specific acts, beliefs, religions, ethnicities, I'm sorry, but I really can't do more.



No, not "as per my posts".

I wasn't comparing Islam to Christianity.

I was comparing Hungary, Ottoman Empire and Spain form the "multicultural" vs "mono-cultural" point of view. State's policies, administrative/organisation frames, inter-reactions between groups and state.

And although groups (especially in medieval period) have as strongest bond ethnicity and religion, I was saying that no, In medieval Hungary and the Ottoman inter-relations between state and groups aren't governed solely by the group's apartenence to a specific religion, nor it's apartenence solely to a specific ethnicity.

It's why I compared medieval Hungary (= Catholic) to Ottoman Empire (= Islamic) and to Spanish Empire (= Catholic). Because all three had their "glory" approximately in the same period, and the three had different approaches in the matter, they have points of convergence and points of divergence.

The difference in the state's approach towards groups is clear between Hungary and Spain (although both Catholic) also between Ottoman Empire and Spanish Empire (although both empires). And some of the long term results are also different.

IMO, looking at it strictly through the "Islamist" lens is simply ignoring the other factors involved.


______
PS: tomar, all that has nothing nothing to do with PC, islamophobia, BBC and the rest.
My posts were quite clear and feel you are (perhaps deliberately) missing the entire point.

In any case, I'm just going to leave it here as you've clearly not understood my counter points to your post (218) and have engaged in various forms of diversions and red herrings. If you want to respond then fine, so long as our posts are left up for others to read through, if they are so inclined.
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,825
Europix
My posts were quite clear and feel you are (perhaps deliberately) missing the entire point. ...
But I'm not missing Your point, especially as they were extremely clear.

... In any case, I'm just going to leave it here as you've clearly not understood my counter points to your post (218) and have engaged in various forms of diversions and red herrings. If you want to respond then fine, so long as our posts are left up for others to read through, if they are so inclined.
But I did understood Your counterpoints. Only that they were counterpoints to something else or somebody else, certainly not to my post.
 

Baldtastic

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,594
Londinium
But I'm not missing Your point, especially as they were extremely clear.

But I did understood Your counterpoints. Only that they were counterpoints to something else or somebody else, certainly not to my post.
My points were directly related to your post, I specifically pulled out part of what you wrote and showed there is no basis for this in history, introducing some examples of my own to prove this - while underlining that the entire history and expansion of Islam furthers my points raised.

Clearly we disagree about how applicable your posts to my initial response in 221 (pg 23) have been. Indeed, the 1st sentence in that post really sums it up very well, the second paragraph also, I feel, has not been addressed. Rather the points have been skirted and avoided.

I'm going to leave it here and, if anyone cares, they can review page 23 onwards themselves.
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,825
Europix
My points were directly related to your post, I specifically pulled out part of what you wrote and showed there is no basis for this in history, introducing some examples of my own to prove this - while underlining that the entire history and expansion of Islam furthers my points raised. ...

Sorry, but no. The entirety of human history is contradicting Your "there is no basis for this in history" and I gave You examples on all sorts of domains, outside the religious sphere too (see Myanmar and Hungary leaders ''agree'' on ''Muslim population challenge'',
Myanmar and Hungary leaders ''agree'' on ''Muslim population challenge'',
Myanmar and Hungary leaders ''agree'' on ''Muslim population challenge'',
Myanmar and Hungary leaders ''agree'' on ''Muslim population challenge'' ).

That You consider the phenomenon of cultural appropriation only in the religious area (and mainly Islam, that is) it's something I can't do anything about.

I can just repeat that cultural in the "cultural appropriation" comes from culture. Culture never meant only religion. Regardless how important or unimportant was/is the religious aspect in a society, its culture never resumed/resumes to religion only.

I'm going to leave it here and, if anyone cares, they can review page 23 onwards themselves.
Totally agreed. Moreover, I'll follow You on that.
 
Last edited:

JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,073
USA
I am from Bosnia, yes.


Well, I did note in my previous posts that al-Andalus had periods of tolerance and that Jewish communities prospered there. However, the same thing can be said for Christian states as well. Yet, we have this image of Christendom being a hostile place for the Jews.
I do not have any image of the European middle ages being a hostile place for Jews. In fact I have long argued against such a view.
 

JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,073
USA
Your claims go against the currently politically correct narrative and are therefore unacceptable. You are to be reminded that Islam is the religion of peace, of enlightement , of extreme tolerance, and of 1001 extraordinarily clever inventions that benefitted all of mankind.. Moreover muslims are by essence victims and must be protected. Islam expanded peacefully because people saw the light and flocked to the one true religion... Words like war, conquest, slavery etc when applied to islamic civilizations are indicative of tendencies that can only be qualified as islamophobic...
Your sentence: watch more BBC and read Al Jazeera at least 3 hours a day until you see the error of your ways
Honestly though these discussions are overblown at time. Most of the folks of our world that are cool with all religions are pretty laid back...otoh its the anti Muslims, anti Christians that get triggered. I mean one could say something nice to a person whom for example says Islam is violent, and the response from the person saying Islam is violent wont include a compliment in response but more of a anti Islamic argument.

Its only because we live in non Muslim majority countries that words like Islamophobe or otoh associating negative behavior with Muslims gets a drawback. I feel its because Muslims are a minority in the USA. I also along with many, dont buy that most Muslims in Muslim majority countries discriminate against non Muslims. Christians in the US can handle criticism of there religion and so can Muslims in the middle east and Africa. But the way anti Muslims respond is not to say oh hey maybe he or she is on to something, but its with links and news reports of single crimes being committed by Muslims when in fact common sense tells us crime is occurring in every country, the USA, Saudi Arabia, Communist Countries. Atheists are in jail for violent crimes, so we can see that having a non Islamic upbringing does not mean one wont end up in jail. And we can see having an Islamic upbringing does not mean one wont end up in jail.

The leaders of Myanmar and Hungary can do what they want. But any ruler anywhere ignores common sense by arguing for or instituting bigoted policies.
 

JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,073
USA
IMO the average American and Average Iranian are welcoming people. And I say that because a part of this issue is clear, a few people in our world worry about Muslim immigration specifically from countries like Iran...well its very easy to defeat those arguments btw.

The issue is intolerant governments of the world. The leaders of Myanmar and Hungary and all leaders of the world should stand for common sense laws, which merely translates into equality.

the average Iranian is incredibly friendly and hospitable. I was stopped dozens of times during my ten day visit with a giant smile “Welcome to Iran!” after informing the questioner that I was from the U.S.

Down With USA, Do Iranians really hate Americans?

The Iranian people are pro-American, unlike their government


Its the division that leads to issues, whether its from Muslims or Christians. Whether a Christian in the US like the POTUS spiritual adviser says Jews and Muslims are going to hell, or an ISIL member gets up on tv and says Christians and Jews are going to burn in the hellfire...those mindsets exist. We all have free will. Plenty of good religious and non religious people exist. This thread is about how countries in our time handle social affairs this is not just about ones opinion on history or religion. These are real life matters. And one can complain all they want about a religion, that happens in Muslim and Christian countries. Plenty of Atheists from Muslim backgrounds in Turkey, the US, Iraq, Lebanon Albania and so much more. A free person views a different viewpoint civilly. The problem in our world are those hyping up division by singling out so called racial groups or religious groups. So the leaders of Myanmar and Hungary should act like responsible adults and pursue common sense policies based on equality before the law. Plenty of Muslims and non Muslims of the world will have a civil conversation even if there are disagreements.
 
Last edited: