Names used by foreigners for the Byzantine Empire?

Kirialax

Ad Honorem
Dec 2009
4,959
Blachernai
Cui cum respondere et apologeticum dignum infiatione hac evomere vellem, non permisit; sed adiecit quasi ad contumeliam: "Vos non Romani, sed Langobardi estis ! ". Cui adhuc dicere volenti et manu ut tacerem innuenti, commotus inquam: "Romulum fratricidam, ex quo et Romani dicti sunt, porniogenitum, hoc est ex adulterio natum, chronographia innotuit, asylumque sibi fecisse in quo alieni aeris debitores, fugitivos servos, homicidas ac pro reatibus suis morte dignos suscepit, multitudinemque quandam talium sibi ascivit, quos Romanos appellavit; ex qua nobilitate propagati sunt ipsi, quos vos kosmocratores, id est imperatores, appellatis. Quos nos - Langobardi scilicet, Saxones, Franci, Lotharihgi, Bagoarii, Suevi, Burgundiones - tanto dedignamur ut (in) inimicos nostros commoti nil ali ud contumeliarum nisi 'Romane!' dicamus, hocmsolo, id est Romanorum nomine, quicquid ignobilitatis, quicquid timiditatis, quicquid avaritiae, quicquid luxuriae, quicquid mendacii, immo quicquid vitiorum est, comprehendentes.

He did not permit it when I wanted to respond to this and throw out a counter-argument worthy of his inflation; instead he added, as if to insult us: “You are not Romans, but Lombards!” Though he wanted to say something beyond this and waved his hand so that I would be quiet, I spoke out, upset: “The annals recognize that fratricidal Romulus, from whose name they are called Romans, was born to a whore, that is, he was generated in defilement; and he made a refuge for himself where he welcomed defaulted debtors from foreign climes, runaway slaves, murderers, and people who deserved death for their crimes, and he attracted such a throng of such people that he called them Romans; from this aristocracy there arose those whom you call cosmocrators, or emperors. We, that means the Lombards, Saxons, Franks, Lotharingians, Bavarians, Swabians, Burgundians, so disdain them that we utter no other insult than ‘You Roman!’ to our enemies when aroused, and we understand that single term, the name of the Romans, to include every baseness, every cowardice, every kind of greed, every promiscuity, every mendacity, indeed every vice.


- Liutprand of Cremona, Relatio de Legatio Constantinopolitana. In Paolo Chiesa, ed. Liudprandi Cremonensis, Antapodosis, Homelia Paschalis, Historia Ottonis, Relatio de Legatio Constantinopolitana (Turnhout: Brepols, 1998), 192-93. Transl. by Paolo Squatriti, The Complete Works of Liudprand of Cremona (Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University of America Press, 2007), 246-47.

Rhetoric matters in the terms that particular texts employed. Here we have a promient Latin from elite Ottonian circles turning the Byzantine claim of Roman-ness into an insult. He's not denying it.
 
Feb 2019
671
Thrace
Apparently not. They called it the "empire of the Rum". And "Rum" is clearly a derivative of Romaioi/Romans, but it was not the same term they used for Rumiya (Rome). Now this makes me wonder how did they call the inhabitants of the city of papal Rome and the ancient Romans.
Mehmed the Conqueror proclaimed himself the new Caesar after conquering Constantinople. I'd say the Islamic world considered the Byzantine Empire to be the continuation of the Roman Empire.
 
Oct 2018
2,090
Sydney
Cui cum respondere et apologeticum dignum infiatione hac evomere vellem, non permisit; sed adiecit quasi ad contumeliam: "Vos non Romani, sed Langobardi estis ! ". Cui adhuc dicere volenti et manu ut tacerem innuenti, commotus inquam: "Romulum fratricidam, ex quo et Romani dicti sunt, porniogenitum, hoc est ex adulterio natum, chronographia innotuit, asylumque sibi fecisse in quo alieni aeris debitores, fugitivos servos, homicidas ac pro reatibus suis morte dignos suscepit, multitudinemque quandam talium sibi ascivit, quos Romanos appellavit; ex qua nobilitate propagati sunt ipsi, quos vos kosmocratores, id est imperatores, appellatis. Quos nos - Langobardi scilicet, Saxones, Franci, Lotharihgi, Bagoarii, Suevi, Burgundiones - tanto dedignamur ut (in) inimicos nostros commoti nil ali ud contumeliarum nisi 'Romane!' dicamus, hocmsolo, id est Romanorum nomine, quicquid ignobilitatis, quicquid timiditatis, quicquid avaritiae, quicquid luxuriae, quicquid mendacii, immo quicquid vitiorum est, comprehendentes.

He did not permit it when I wanted to respond to this and throw out a counter-argument worthy of his inflation; instead he added, as if to insult us: “You are not Romans, but Lombards!” Though he wanted to say something beyond this and waved his hand so that I would be quiet, I spoke out, upset: “The annals recognize that fratricidal Romulus, from whose name they are called Romans, was born to a whore, that is, he was generated in defilement; and he made a refuge for himself where he welcomed defaulted debtors from foreign climes, runaway slaves, murderers, and people who deserved death for their crimes, and he attracted such a throng of such people that he called them Romans; from this aristocracy there arose those whom you call cosmocrators, or emperors. We, that means the Lombards, Saxons, Franks, Lotharingians, Bavarians, Swabians, Burgundians, so disdain them that we utter no other insult than ‘You Roman!’ to our enemies when aroused, and we understand that single term, the name of the Romans, to include every baseness, every cowardice, every kind of greed, every promiscuity, every mendacity, indeed every vice.


- Liutprand of Cremona, Relatio de Legatio Constantinopolitana. In Paolo Chiesa, ed. Liudprandi Cremonensis, Antapodosis, Homelia Paschalis, Historia Ottonis, Relatio de Legatio Constantinopolitana (Turnhout: Brepols, 1998), 192-93. Transl. by Paolo Squatriti, The Complete Works of Liudprand of Cremona (Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University of America Press, 2007), 246-47.

Rhetoric matters in the terms that particular texts employed. Here we have a promient Latin from elite Ottonian circles turning the Byzantine claim of Roman-ness into an insult. He's not denying it.
Cosmocrator. What a great word.
 
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Aug 2019
15
Ashrakhan
Medieval Serbs called the Byzantine Empire "Greek". What is interesting is that medieval Serbs used the word "Greek" to describe the Crusader Latin Empire as well.
Very interesting indeed, can you expand a bit on that? Maybe site some sources, I'd be much obliged!
 
Jan 2017
72
Italy, EU
Rhetoric matters in the terms that particular texts employed. Here we have a promient Latin from elite Ottonian circles turning the Byzantine claim of Roman-ness into an insult. He's not denying it.
Well, obviously these people mostly identifed as Lombards etc. Only the HRE emperor called himself Imperator Romanorum, but his subjects didn't call themselves Romans (at least not as far as i know). However, i wonder how did Byzantines and Arabs call the inhabitants of Rome, (papal states) because they also continued to call themselves Romans.
 

Solidaire

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,740
Athens, Greece
Cosmocrator. What a great word.
Greek is like a linguistic Lego, you can create words at will, even your own ones (I do that all the time - endless fun :)).

In the above case, cosmo- (world) and -crator (ruler). Also, cosmonautis (nautis = sailor) or astronautis (astro = star), cosmotheoria (worldview, theoria = view), autocrator (auto = self), etc, etc.
 
Oct 2018
2,090
Sydney
Greek is like a linguistic Lego, you can create words at will, even your own ones (I do that all the time - endless fun :)).

In the above case, cosmo- (world) and -crator (ruler). Also, cosmonautis (nautis = sailor) or astronautis (astro = star), cosmotheoria (worldview, theoria = view), autocrator (auto = self), etc, etc.
It looks particularly cool in the Greek as well: κοσμοκράτωρ
 
Oct 2017
385
America ??
Greek is like a linguistic Lego, you can create words at will, even your own ones (I do that all the time - endless fun :)).

In the above case, cosmo- (world) and -crator (ruler). Also, cosmonautis (nautis = sailor) or astronautis (astro = star), cosmotheoria (worldview, theoria = view), autocrator (auto = self), etc, etc.
“Greek is like a linguistic Lego”.

More so than English? How compare to English & Latin?