Native Americans - bloodthirsty savages or peaceful tribes?

Jun 2017
13
Norway
#62
I'm English/British and like to be referred to in that way rather than the French "Rostbiff". Much like referring to a someone from south of the Mason-Dixie line as a "Yank". Using Dakotah/Lakotah is just a sign of respect. #respectforall
 
Sep 2012
879
Spring, Texas
#63
In Louisiana we tend to accuse people without a Southern or Cajun accent of being a Yankee. My Mother moved to Sulphur, LA with a thick Arkansas accent. My Dad made fun of it! I never heard it from her. She made sure all her children spoke correct, almost accent free English! I got used to people accuse me of being a Yankee! Then I had to explain about Mom.



After 40 plus years of adulthood, I don't sound like a Yankee anymore and can even fake a Cajun accent when I want to. I don't really speak Cajun French, but my ex-wife taught me all the curse words before she started to call me them!


Sometimes you have to remember that most Southerners have a Yankee or two in the family tree! I have found at least one, but have not done the whole tree.



Pruitt
 
#64
The brave pilgrim forefathers set off from Plymouth to start a new life in the new world, a virgin territory untouched by European hand, and when they finally got there they arrived in a place called Plymouth - what are the chances of that eh?

The myth goes that the friendly natives helped the English settlers to survive the winter by giving them food and that's where we get Thanksgiving. However, there's also evidence to suggest that some tribes were more savage with ritualised torture being a curious pastime.

More modern stories focus on the fearsome Apache and Comanche warriors scalping their prisoners and generally being vicious. Certain sources from the 19th C also allude to those tribes promoting toughness over weakness, to the point where those who dominate others earn their place in tribal society.

Lately though it seems a modern tapestry has thrown traditional views out the window:

'Racist' Native American tapestry 'should not be displayed' - BBC News

Do people have any reason to be offended?

"A British tapestry depicting Native Americans as "subhuman, warlike savages" should not be put on public show, campaigners say.
The 267ft (81m) New World Tapestry perpetuates a "racist tradition", the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) said.
But designer Tom Mor said the claims were "rubbish".
The work, depicting North American colonisation between 1583 and 1642, may feature in an upcoming anniversary."

I'm not one for blowing the PC trumpet but in this case I think that picture is offensive.

One, the White Europeans caused the migrations and fierceness to be more prevalent amongst the Indian tribes, they were fighting for survival.
On the move, pushing them into each others territories, pitting one tribe against another was done by the settlers and the French and English nations.

Secondly if you want to call anyone savage, what would you call a race of people who arrive in someone else's land and move to eradicate the native population? mass murder, massacres equivalent to Hiroshima in scale but all done by hand.

What are the figures for the number of natives that were killed over the course of the settlement of America?

That's what I call savagery and so yes that picture is offensive.
 
Sep 2012
879
Spring, Texas
#65
I'm not one for blowing the PC trumpet but in this case I think that picture is offensive.

One, the White Europeans caused the migrations and fierceness to be more prevalent amongst the Indian tribes, they were fighting for survival.
On the move, pushing them into each others territories, pitting one tribe against another was done by the settlers and the French and English nations.

Secondly if you want to call anyone savage, what would you call a race of people who arrive in someone else's land and move to eradicate the native population? mass murder, massacres equivalent to Hiroshima in scale but all done by hand.

What are the figures for the number of natives that were killed over the course of the settlement of America?

That's what I call savagery and so yes that picture is offensive.

Actually the tapestry seems pretty accurate. Fur traders and fishing boats were visiting the New England coast for a while. Diseases from Mexico and other points had swept through the area several times and had wiped out many villages. The first settlers were so puny and weak the local tribe decided they should help them and they could in turn be useful allies against their enemies.



The first British settlers found the abandoned villages and moved in. The fields were already cleared of rocks (Praise God for putting it there for us!). When the local tribes came back to reclaim the cleared fields that had lain fallow, they found strange people trespassing there and working the fields. Look at a map of New England and find the towns that end in the word "field". There is where the settlers found cleared fields. The Indians along the Great Lakes were no strangers to scalping and mutilating enemy dead. They also practiced ritual cannibalism!


The depiction of an Indian girl saving Captain John Smith was part of an adoption ceremony. If you were found unworthy you would be knocked on the head or burned at the stake. Pocahontas was quite young at the time. She eventually married another settler.



Maybe they should make another tapestry showing how the British settlers made war on Native Americans, destroyed the woods and fouled the land?


Pruitt
 
Sep 2012
879
Spring, Texas
#66
Yes, i agree
But in the article I linked to there is a follow up article
and it talks about how the connection to snake and devil and christianity
and this is why it is a derogatory term to use snake

you can copy/paste the author of the article and put it in the search bar on that article page to find more article about this topic from the same author

Snakes also have a forked tongue. A fact that has made it into many a movie dialogue.


Pruitt
 
#68
Actually the tapestry seems pretty accurate. Fur traders and fishing boats were visiting the New England coast for a while. Diseases from Mexico and other points had swept through the area several times and had wiped out many villages. The first settlers were so puny and weak the local tribe decided they should help them and they could in turn be useful allies against their enemies.



The first British settlers found the abandoned villages and moved in. The fields were already cleared of rocks (Praise God for putting it there for us!). When the local tribes came back to reclaim the cleared fields that had lain fallow, they found strange people trespassing there and working the fields. Look at a map of New England and find the towns that end in the word "field". There is where the settlers found cleared fields. The Indians along the Great Lakes were no strangers to scalping and mutilating enemy dead. They also practiced ritual cannibalism!


The depiction of an Indian girl saving Captain John Smith was part of an adoption ceremony. If you were found unworthy you would be knocked on the head or burned at the stake. Pocahontas was quite young at the time. She eventually married another settler.



Maybe they should make another tapestry showing how the British settlers made war on Native Americans, destroyed the woods and fouled the land?


Pruitt
Making war is one thing annihilating an entire continent is abhorrent, something I'm happy to say we've never stooped low enough to do.

No actually I was thinking it'd be nicer and less offensive to not draw the Native Indian's like they're trolls ........ would be a start.
 
Aug 2018
34
Southern Indiana
#69
The hundreds of different tribes varied greatly from pacifistic to extremely warlike. Ottawas, Chippewas and other northern tribes sometimes practiced cannibalism. The Hurons were greatly feared for their cruelty.
The Iroquois League is often referenced for their civilized political system, but they instigated the decades long Beaver Wars against tribes from Canada down to Kentucky to control the fur trade. They exterminated a couple of tribes completely and displaced numerous others including the Delaware and the Shawnee.
Slavery was common in some tribes. The Cherokee actually developed a plantation system with black slaves. There was even a court case about it some years back where the tribe was denying Black Cherokee tribal rights.
All that being said, they are people just like us. White atrocities were just as common and just as cruel. The Moravian Christian Indian massacre and the Yellow Creek massacre are a couple of examples of whites being incredibly cruel to friendly indians killing even innocent women and children for no reason.
 
Mar 2017
766
Colorado
#70
The hundreds of different tribes varied greatly from pacifistic to extremely warlike. Ottawas, Chippewas and other northern tribes sometimes practiced cannibalism. The Hurons were greatly feared for their cruelty.
The Iroquois League is often referenced for their civilized political system, but they instigated the decades long Beaver Wars against tribes from Canada down to Kentucky to control the fur trade. They exterminated a couple of tribes completely and displaced numerous others including the Delaware and the Shawnee.
Slavery was common in some tribes. The Cherokee actually developed a plantation system with black slaves. There was even a court case about it some years back where the tribe was denying Black Cherokee tribal rights.
All that being said, they are people just like us. White atrocities were just as common and just as cruel. The Moravian Christian Indian massacre and the Yellow Creek massacre are a couple of examples of whites being incredibly cruel to friendly indians killing even innocent women and children for no reason.
One thing I've learned from historical sources is that historical peoples weren't "like" us ... they "were" us ... only with differences in technology and slight cultural spins. You can't clump all Indians as a single behavioral entity, no more than you can do that to Europeans. The horror that woman had as a European stole her child as a pet would feel exactly the same if someone walked off with your son.

There WERE peaceful Indians like the Arawaks, that were nearly wiped out by the fierce Caribes by the time Columbus got there. Some Native Americans scalped, most did not. Some Indians counted coupe, some did not. Because they "were" us, some were very clever and wily with dealing with the white man. I think very few of them appreciated the magnitude of the "white problem".

I honestly don't know if Native American ferocity to settlements has been exaggerated by Hollywood or glossed over by political correctness. I suspect that MOST Native Americans took captives in warfare ("Jumpin' Jehosophat! A WHITE woman was kidnapped by the red men!!!"), until their own experiences taught them to payback in kind. What's clear is that a good many white men treated them like animals.

I don't live that far from Sand Creek --
Chivington: "Damn any man who sympathizes with Indians ... Kill and scalp all, big and little; nits make lice."

During the California Gold Rush, miners would go into the hills and shoot Indians "for sport."

-----
I was surprised to read that snake thing about "Sioux". I always presumed that was THEIR word. Many tribes' names translate to something like "the people" ... along the lines of the Hebrews' "chosen people." They are the ones that count, everyone else is something less.

Suisun call themselves Patwin -> The People
Ho-chunk -> The People
Inuit -> The People
Lakota -> The People/Humans
Lenape -> The People
Dene -> The People
Apache -> People