Nazi germany loses the war, but survives to the present day

Jun 2015
5,723
UK
#1
Say Hitler dies in the Valkyrie operation, and some of the smart top brass sue for peace. They manage to persuade the Allies to keep their state intact, with some conditions like the treaty the FDR has in real life.

But they are an active ally in the Cold War, with even the USA, UK, France, and other Cold War partners saying to Jews, non-whites, the disabled, or anybody whom the new Fuhrer deems undesirable not to travel there only on their own risk.

The USSR loses the Cold War, but at best Nazi Germany becomes like a Franco or Salazar dictatorship by 2017, not racist or supremacist per se, but not a democracy. They even send troops to middle-eastern conflicts, and are an active player in anti-communist armies/movements around the world.
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,114
Republika Srpska
#2
I don't think Soviet Union would accept any kind of Nazism surviving after Barbarossa and the whole Eastern Front. If the Allies accept peace offers from Nazi leaders, I would assume the USSR would respond, continuing the fight on its own and possibly even attacking his former allies. Stalin would be furious, he was paranoid about the Western Allies betraying him IOTL, imagine what would happen if his paranoia proved to be reasonable.
 
Jan 2013
909
Toronto, Canada
#3
By 1944, the Allies had already decided on a policy of demanding unconditional surrender. Killing Hitler wouldn't have stopped the war.
 

starman

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
4,071
Connecticut
#4
Say Hitler dies in the Valkyrie operation, and some of the smart top brass sue for peace. They manage to persuade the Allies to keep their state intact
By July 1944 it was far too late to get a settlement on decent terms i.e. anything other than unconditional surrender. I think, though, there was a fair chance that policy might've been modified or dropped if the Germans started doing things right no later than March 1943 when Hitler survived an earlier assassination attempt. Or maybe no later than the summer of '42.
 
Aug 2015
2,359
uk
#5
After defeat , there's no way the Nazis stay in charge, especially when the horrors of the concentration camps are discovered.

Also if the Allies (without the Soviet Union) strike favourable peace terms with Germany, then WW3 starts shortly afterwards
 

MAGolding

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,847
Chalfont, Pennsylvania
#6
Suppose that the Nazis gain power in 1933 as in real life, and World War II starts in 1939 as in real life, what would be the latest possible date that the war could end in a way that could be considered a Nazi defeat, and thus certainly without massive gains for Nazi Germany, but the party manages to stay in power in Germany instead of being outlawed by enemy occupation forces or overthrown by disgruntled Germans?

I could guess that the outcome of democratic elections in Britain , France, and the USA could be much different, and the leaders of dictatorships like Japan, USSR, and Nazi Germany are largely wiped out by assassinations, accidents, etc. and so all the war leaders of WWII are replaced by others who by chance are less gung ho and warlike and thus fight less total war and make some kind of peace treaty within a year or 2 of the start of WWII.

After such a much less bloody and destructive WWII Nazi Germany would have a much better chance of survival.
 

starman

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
4,071
Connecticut
#7
After defeat , there's no way the Nazis stay in charge, especially when the horrors of the concentration camps are discovered.
If Germany is overrun, of course the nazis lose power; if the reich is essentially defeated but not overrun, then the camps wouldn't be revealed.

Also if the Allies (without the Soviet Union) strike favourable peace terms with Germany, then WW3 starts shortly afterwards
The USSR would have little stomach for starting WWIII if it involved a risk of fighting the US as as well as an intact Germany. The USSR didn't have the Bomb until '49, so it wouldn't start a war before then and afterwards it would still be deterred.
 
Feb 2016
4,358
Japan
#8
Only way I see this happening is in 1939-40. Britain and France push Germany back out of France and Holland, British operations in Norway are a success and Germany sues for peace and agrees to pull out of all Western European countries. I guess we'd hang Poland and the east out to dry as always.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,511
Spain
#9
Well, I don´t think so it would have been possible a Peace in Eastern Front after the crimes nazis had commited in Russia but If there was some chance to reach a Peace agreement, it had to be as later in 1943 summer, after the failure in Zitadelle and when allied landed in Sicily.
Not later.
 

starman

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
4,071
Connecticut
#10
Well, I don´t think so it would have been possible a Peace in Eastern Front after the crimes nazis had commited in Russia but If there was some chance to reach a Peace agreement, it had to be as later in 1943 summer, after the failure in Zitadelle and when allied landed in Sicily.
Not later.

By then it was too late for a negotiated settlement. The Germans had their best chance in July 1942 when German advances greatly worried Stalin. There might've been a peace enabling the reich to keep Soviet territory up to the Dneiper and beyond.
The Germans's last chance was around the spring of '43. Manstein's counterattack showed that even after Stalingrad the reich still had plenty of teeth and defeating it would prove horrifically costly. The Germans might've got the Soviets to make peace leaving them in possession of the baltic states western Poland and maybe some other piece.