Nazism worser than Stalinism?

Dec 2011
1,386
Belgium
@PaulRyckier communists were also killing people based on their nationality or just because they lived on farmland for example. It is just an appearance that communist crimes are different somehow from Nazi crimes. Guilt was so much collectivized and crimes so large and widespread that there is no real difference. We should just remember deportations of Chechens or Tatars ( both had extremely high mortality rates in exile because of their poor living conditions and forced labour ) and others under Stalin and state sponsored famines in Soviet union in eraly 30s and in China in early 60s. Rogue Khmers were killing people because one of their ancestors was Vietnamese for example and punished with massacres Cham people colletively.
Anonymous Profesor, it is my personal conviction that the Nazi genocide was different from nearly every other because it was based on Nazi "racial" (genetical) affiliation with the "German race".

I have never ever found some similarities in any genocide as for example these trials by Nazis at the university of Strasbourg during WWII.
From the link:
"In 1942, he set in motion a scientific study at the Anatomical Institute of Reich University in Strasbourg to try to prove Jews were an inferior race. Anthropologists went to Auschwitz to select Jews for “medical experiments,” which included detailed measurements and documentation of skin, hair and eye color, according to research. Ultimately, 86 were sent to the Natzweiler-Struthof concentration camp and gassed. Their bodies went to Hirt’s lab. "
"It was 1943 when German anthropologists selected 109 Jews for examination. They measured their heads and made casts of their faces. They took photographs and X-rays. They drew blood. Eighty-six were loaded into a train and taken to Natzweiler-Struthof in France’s Vosges Mountains, where they were forced to march through the Natzweiler village on the way to their death. "

If I understand it well they have first selected 109 Jews on details given by Nazi anthropologists and ultimately after the murder of these Jews, 86 corpses were sent to Strasbourg for experiments by the Nazi doctors...

Kind regards, Paul.
 
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Dir

Nov 2015
1,960
Kyiv
By your response I'm assuming you didn't read the article.

It doesn't say the famine never happened. It challenges it being identified as a genocide, that it was purposely instigated to kill the Ukrainian population. ... This is not the first time a famine would occur in the Ukraine,
- This is a completely false statement. On the main part of the territory of Ukraine where the Moscow authorities carried out an action of famine, hunger with mortality has been never recorded over the past 10 centuries - at least.

I tried to find any mention of famine in those regions in historical sources until 1932 - and I did not find a single one.

Hunger without some mortality took place in the 19th century only in some southern and southeastern steppe regions of Ukraine, while Ukrainian migrants mastered these wild steppes and had not yet managed to establish food production. But the action of the famine - Holodomor 1932-1933 did not focus on this part of Ukraine - it was carried out mainly in the traditional Ukrainian central lands, where hunger had never happened before

It was an act of genocide. Its purpose is to punish Ukrainian villagers for their unwillingness to go to kolkhoz with their free labor for the state. And bringing those villagers who survive after that into absolute submission to the Kremlin authorities.

...funny how when it happened when Soviets were in power it is declared a genocide
- Do you think the epithet “funny” is appropriate in the topic of the extermination by the Moscow authorities of several million civilians — along with infants and pregnant women — by total seizure of food supplies from them and blocking their sale in Ukrainian villages?
 

Dir

Nov 2015
1,960
Kyiv
German Nazism exterminated Jews, declaring their "national inferiority"

Russian Bolshevism exterminated its citizens by the principle of their "class inferiority" - and then by the principle of their insufficient loyalty to the Kremlin authorities.

As one NKVD officer said in the late 1930s - we clean people by layers. Мы убираем людей слоями.
 
Sep 2019
486
Slovenia
Maybe mr. Dir who is coming from Ukraine will know if it is correct information, that it was Ukraine which lost the most of its people in the time of Stalin. More than other parts of USSR. And that during WW2 Ukraine lost the most of civilians killed by German army and SS in USSR?
 

MG1962a

Ad Honorem
Mar 2019
2,351
Kansas
Maybe mr. Dir who is coming from Ukraine will know if it is correct information, that it was Ukraine which lost the most of its people in the time of Stalin. More than other parts of USSR. And that during WW2 Ukraine lost the most of civilians killed by German army and SS in USSR?
During WW2 I think Belorus suffered on similar levels. Something like 2/3rds of all her cities were simply erased from the landscape :(
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,957
Republika Srpska
While I do think Holodomor was at least partly a planned event, it should be noted that Ukraine was not the only region of the USSR that suffered a devastating famine at the same time. Kazakhstan, Volga regions in Russia and the Caucasus suffered as well. Millions died there as well.
 
Sep 2019
486
Slovenia
I can not agree it was the same. People from Kazahstan had an option to go to China during famine time. And around 1,5 milion of them went there. Areas of Ukraine struck by famine however were closed.
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,957
Republika Srpska
I can not agree it was the same. People from Kazahstan had an option to go to China during famine time. And around 1,5 milion of them went there. Areas of Ukraine struck by famine however were closed.
I would argue the Kazakh famine was even worse than the Holodomor in some aspects. The Kazakh people were devastated, something like 35-40% of all Kazakhs lost their lives. Kazakhs would not become the majority in Kazakhstan again until the late 1980s, more than 50 years after the famine.
 
Sep 2019
486
Slovenia
@MG1962a Belarus was surelly strucked a lot. I asked the question because documentary Between Hitler and Stalin Ukraine in WW2 The untold story claims Ukraine lost the most under Stalin and also during Nazi invasion and occupation. I see the claim about Ukraine victims under Stalin much founded, about the other one i am not sure.