Nebuchadnezzer (Historical fiction)

Jul 2017
842
Crete
#1
It is seemingly obvious that Nebuchadnezzer is not Nabû-kudurri-uṣur.

Problem
  • Nabû-kudurri-uṣur failed to conquer Egypt.
  • Nabû-kudurri-uṣur failed to capture or destroy Tyre

Prophet [נבו] is a common epithet among other biblical characters and thus his
name can be interpreted ' Prophet Chadanasar .

In the LXX , the name is Ναβου Χοδονοσορ.

Solution
  • Nebuchadnezzer modelled after Alexander
  • Biblical tales are Hellenistic
  • Ἀλέξανδρος > ξνδρ > Χσνδρ > Χδνσρ > כדנצר
  • Alexander conquered Egypt
  • Alexander captured & destroyed Tyre


 
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Jan 2015
884
England
#2
Did Alexander destroy Jerusalem and take the Jews back to Babylon for a number of decades? Did he have a successor (not necessarily immediate) named Belshazzar who was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians while feasting in Babylon?
 
Feb 2013
4,303
Coastal Florida
#3
Um...you realize we have extant contemporary evidence from Nebuchadnezzar II's reign, right? I'm not sure that every detail of the biblical account can be verified but, surely, we have enough to conclusive determine he had nothing to do with Alexander...
 
Jul 2017
842
Crete
#4
Alexander destroyed Tyre and 30,000 Tyrians were sold into slavery.

A. Destroyed City.
B. Displaced Populous

Herodotus wrote his geographic histories around 484-424 BCE, doesn't mention Jerusalem, Israel, Jews or Nebuchadnezzar and yet begins his histories with the Phoenicians.
 
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Jan 2015
884
England
#5
Herodotus wrote his geographic histories around 484-424 BCE, doesn't mention Jerusalem, Israel, Jews or Nebuchadnezzar and yet begins his histories with the Phoenicians.
Yet, as dreamregent pointed out, we have contemporary documents from the time of 'Nabu kudurri-usur'. And to expand on that point, these documents reveal that this Nabu kudurri-usur did indeed destroy the city of Jerusalem and displace the populous, just like the Bible says Nebuchadnezzar did.

We know that it happened.

Herodotus not mentioning it is meaningless.
 
Jul 2017
842
Crete
#6
What documents are you referring too?

Babylonian Chronicle ABC 5

[Obv.1] In the twenty-first year [605/604] the king of Akkad [Nabopolassar] stayed in his own land, 'Nabu kudurri-usur his eldest son, the crown-prince,
[Obv.2] mustered the Babylonian army and took command of his troops; he marched to Karchemiš which is on the bank of the Euphrates,
[Obv.3] and crossed the river to go against the Egyptian army which lay in Karchemiš.
[Obv.4] They fought with each other and the Egyptian army withdrew before him.
[Obv.5] He accomplished their defeat and beat them to non-existence. As for the rest of the Egyptian army
[Obv.6] which had escaped from the defeat so quickly that no weapon had reached them, in the district of Hamath
[Obv.7] the Babylonian troops overtook and defeated them so that not a single man escaped to his own country.
[Obv.8] At that time 'Nabu kudurri-usur conquered the whole area of Hamath.
[Obv.9] For twenty-one years Nabopolassar had been king of Babylon,
[Obv.10] when on 8 Abunote he went to his destiny; in the month of Ululunote Nebuchadnezzar returned to Babylon
[Obv.11] and on 1 Ululunote he sat on the royal throne in Babylon.
[Obv.12] In the accession year Nebuchadnezzar went back again to the Hatti-land and until the month of Šabatunote
[Obv.13] marched unopposed through the Hatti-land; in the month of Šabatu he took the heavy tribute of the Hatti-territory to Babylon.
[Obv.14] In the month of Nisannu{{Spring 604.__ he took the hands of Bêl and the son of Bêl and celebrated the Akitu Festival.
[Obv.15] In the first year of Nebuchadnezzar [604/603] in the month of Simanunote he mustered his army
[Obv.16] and went to the Hatti-territory, he marched about unopposed in the Hatti-territory until the month of Kislîmu.note
[Obv.17] All the kings of the Hatti-land came before him and he received their heavy tribute.
[Obv.18] He marched to the city of Aškelon and captured it in the month of Kislîmu.note
[Obv.19] He captured its king and plundered it and carried off spoil from it.
[Obv.20] He turned the city into a mound and heaps of ruins and then in the month of Šabatunote he marched back to Babylon.
[Obv.21] In the second year [603/602] in the month of Ajarunote the king of Akkad gathered together a powerful army and marched to the land of Hatti.
[Obv.22] ...] he threw down, great siege-towers he [...
[Obv.23] ...] from the month of Ajaru until the mon[th of ...] he marched about unopposed in the land of Hatti.
[Obv.24-27] [Four lines missing]

[Rev.1'] In the third year [602/601] the king of Akkad left and
[Rev.2'] in the month of [...] on the thirteenth day, [the king's brother] Nabû-šuma-lišir [...]
[Rev.3'] The king of Akkad mustered his troops and marched to the Hatti-land.
[Rev.4'] and brought back much spoils from the Hatti-land into Akkad.
[Rev.5'] In the fourth year [601/600] the king of Akkad mustered his army and marched to the Hatti-land. In the Hatti-land they marched unopposed.
[Rev.6'] In the month of Kislîmunote he took the lead of his army and marched to Egypt. The king of Egypt heard it and mustered his army.
[Rev.7'] In open battle they smote the breast of each other and inflicted great havoc on each other. The king of Akkad turned back with his troops and returned to Babylon.note
[Rev.8'] In the fifth year [600/599] the king of Akkad stayed in his own land and gathered together his chariots and horses in great numbers.
[Rev.9'] In the sixth year [599/598] in the month of Kislîmunote the king of Akkad mustered his army and marched to the Hatti-land. From the Hatti-land he sent out his companies,
[Rev.10'] and scouring the desert they took much plunder from the Arabs,note their possessions, animals and gods. In the month of Addarunote the king returned to his own land.
[Rev.11'] In the seventh year [598/597], the month of Kislîmu, the king of Akkad mustered his troops, marched to the Hatti-land,
[Rev.12'] and besieged the city of Judah and on the second day of the month of Addarunote he seized the city and captured the king.note
[Rev.13'] He appointed there a king of his own choice,note received its heavy tribute and sent to Babylon.
[Rev.14'] In the eight year [597/596], the month of Tebetunote the king of Akkad marched to the Hatti-land as far as Karchemiš [...
[Rev.15'] ...] in the month of Šabatunote the king returned to his own land.note
[Rev.16'] In the ninth year [596/595], the month of [...] the king of Akkad and his troops marched along the bank of the Tigris [...]
[Rev.17'] the king of Elam [...]
[Rev.18'] the king of Akkad [...]note
[Rev.19'] which is on the bank of the Tigris he pitched his camp. While there was still a distance of one day's march between them,
[Rev.20'] the king of Elam was afraid and, panic falling on him, he returned to his own land.
[Rev.21'] In the tenth year [595/594] the king of Akkad was in his own land; from the month of Kislîmu to the month of Tebetu there was rebellion in Akkad.note
[Rev.22'] With arms he slew many of his own army. His own hand captured his enemy.
[Rev.23'] In the month of [...],note he marched to the Hatti-land, where kings and [...]-officials
[Rev.24'] came before him and he received their heavy tribute and then returned to Babylon.
[Rev.25'] In the eleventh year [594/593] in the month of Kislîmu,note the king of Akkad mustered his troops and marched to the Hatti-land.
 
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specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
3,289
Australia
#7
It is seemingly obvious that Nebuchadnezzer is not Nabû-kudurri-uṣur.

Problem
  • Nabû-kudurri-uṣur failed to conquer Egypt.

  • Nabû-kudurri-uṣur failed to capture or destroy Tyre

Prophet [נבו] is a common epithet among other biblical characters and thus his
name can be interpreted ' Prophet Chadanasar .

In the LXX , the name is Ναβου Χοδονοσορ.

Solution
  • Nebuchadnezzer modelled after Alexander

  • Biblical tales are Hellenistic

  • Ἀλέξανδρος > ξνδρ > Χσνδρ > Χδνσρ > כדנצר

  • Alexander conquered Egypt

  • Alexander captured & destroyed Tyre



Except ..... and ..... and ..... and Alexander wasn't a Babylonian.
 
Jan 2015
884
England
#8
Oh, and regarding the claim that Nabu-kudurri-usur never plundered Egypt like the Bible says Nebuchadnezzar did, there is at least one contemporary cuneiform tablet dated to his 37th year which records a military campaign into Egypt.

And regarding the attack on Jerusalem, the Bible states that the first attack took place in the king's seventh year, and on this occasion Nebuchadnezzar removed the existing king of Jerusalem and set up his own. This is confirmed by a cuneiform inscription (British Museum 21946), which states: “The seventh year: In the month Kislev the king of Akkad mustered his army and marched to Hattu. He encamped against the city of Judah and on the second day of the month Adar he captured the city (and) seized (its) king [this would be Jehoiachin]. A king of his own choice [this would be Zedekiah] he appointed in the city (and) taking the vast tribute he brought it into Babylon."

This matches the Bible's account to the very year. And furthermore, the Bible later mentions how Jehoiachin, as the king's captive in Babylon, had a daily food allowance. Administrative documents from the time of Nabu-kudurri-usur record how rations were given to 'Yaukin king of Judah'.
 
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Jan 2015
884
England
#10
There is one crucial contradiction in the chronicle.

" marched to the Hatti-land and besieged the city of Judah"

This is Hatti-Land


There so-happen to be an identically named place in Hatti-Land called Judea (Ya’idi) )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam'al
The Bible places the Hittites in the vicinity of Palestine/Israel/Jerusalem etc. - there is no real evidence that the Hittites of the Bible had anything to do with the 'Hittite Empire' of Asia Minor. The 'Hatti-land' of these chronicles may well be a reference to the Biblical Hittites, not having anything to do with Asia Minor.
 

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