Nefertiti, the Great Royal Wife of the Amarna Period

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,019
Italy, Lago Maggiore
I think that is very likely as both are named.
There are two nice examples where this particular sphinx with the head of Akhenaten is offering to the Aten where we can note the same layout of the cartouches with the one of Nefertiti following the two of the Monarch and the ones of the Aten[1].

23c9602d4176.jpg
In this case the cartouche of Nefertiti Neferneferuaten [Living Forever in the Eternity][2] is the first one on the left.

akhenatensphinx.jpg
While here it's the first one on the right. And in this depiction we see the sphinx offering the Aten to the Aten ...

NOTE:
[1] An interesting aspect is that this peculiar configuration can be dated to the first part of the reign of Neferkheperure: the cartouches of the Aten still show symbols of traditional deities, so they are in the early form.
[2] An other meaningful detail of these depictions is that Nefertiti's cartouche is followed by the same statements following the two of the Aten [substantially it seems that Nefertiti's cartouche puts together them]. In fact also the Aten is Living Forever in the Eternity.
 
Mar 2019
399
Ogden, Utah
The best discussion of Tefnut--if it doesn't kill your eyesight.


Tefnut

It states that Shu and Tefnut were both incarnated as lions, known as the rwti. AlpinLuke, those scenes have the older forms of the Aten cartouches, the one having Shu there. My guess is that after the change to the newer cartouches, there were no more lion kings.
 
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AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,019
Italy, Lago Maggiore
The best discussion of Tefnut--if it doesn't kill your eyesight.


Tefnut

It states that Shu and Tefnut were both incarnated as lions, known as the rwti. AlpinLuke, those scenes have the older forms of the Aten cartouches, the one having Shu there. My guess is that after the change to the newer cartouches, there were no more lion kings.
Actually, I'm not aware of later examples of this kind of representation. So it's possible it's a hybrid [gasoline + electric engine!] embedded in the first phase of the development of the Atenist theology.
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,019
Italy, Lago Maggiore
And to add an other clue about the status of Nefertiti we can observe again this remarkable representation in the tomb of Parennefer[The rock tombs of El Amarna : Davies, Norman de Garis, 1865-1941 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive], where we see Nefertiti Neferneferuaten and Akhenaten [covered by the cartouches of the Aten] rewarding Parennefer.

Now, if we look carefully, we can note something curious. Something which can be a mistake made by the modern author of the copy of the depiction [Lepsius? Davies and Garis?], a mistake made by the ancient artist who engraved the sign on that wall [West Wall] ... or something which could be real and which could have an important meaning.

In the upper sector, on the left, Nefertiti has intruduced as

Mistress of the Papyrus and the Sedge
Lady of the Two Lands


Nothing odd here. But looking at the column behind her, we can see her cartouche and the cartouches of Akhenaten all introduced by "Lord of the Two Lands". And we are still in the early phase of Akhenaten's reign [it's visible the first version of the cartouches of the Aten].

Under the two figures Nefertiti is normally introduced as Great Royal Wife, Beloved of him, Lady of the Two Lands. But on that column there are no indications about the Royal family, only that Lord of the Two Lands repeated above all the three cartouches.

 
Apr 2019
184
UK
Probably not a mistake - can we even be sure which crown Nefertiti wears here? It could be her usual flat-topped crown but maybe not. "Effective for her husband" is an epithet attached to Neferneferuaten as king - I think Nefertiti was exactly that while Akhenaten concentrated on the changes he wanted to make to religion and culture. I don't think you can link Nefertiti's status with the early or late Aten name - there's plenty of evidence from Karnak that she was already at least at Tiye's level from the time she first appears on the scene.
 
Mar 2019
399
Ogden, Utah
AlpinLuke, it is not unusual for any queen to be known as "nbt tAwi". In fact, in the scene you supplied, to the right of the part you highlighted in red is a very usual formula that says "Hmt nsw wrt mrt=f Hnwt mHyt rsyt nbt tAwi" or "Great Royal Wife, his beloved, Mistress of the North and the South, Lady of the Two Lands". So I don't feel this part speaks to any special or unusual status of Nefertiti. It's a mixed bag, sometimes "yes" and sometimes "no". I don't know how the artisans of Akhetaten could even deal with the complexity of the situation.

There is an older paper of mine that deals with two subjects, Shu and Tefnut and also the mnemohistory of Egypt. Even the more familiar authors of the Late Period and beyond show us that history can be mixed with mythology very easily. The paper is called "The Death of Hatshepsut". Incredibly, the details of the event can even be incorporated into the text of the El Arish Shrine. This first occurred to Hans Goedicke, who didn't elaborate on it to my knowledge. So I took up the theme.

The Death of Hatshepsut
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,019
Italy, Lago Maggiore
AlpinLuke, it is not unusual for any queen to be known as "nbt tAwi". In fact, in the scene you supplied, to the right of the part you highlighted in red is a very usual formula that says "Hmt nsw wrt mrt=f Hnwt mHyt rsyt nbt tAwi" or "Great Royal Wife, his beloved, Mistress of the North and the South, Lady of the Two Lands". So I don't feel this part speaks to any special or unusual status of Nefertiti. It's a mixed bag, sometimes "yes" and sometimes "no". I don't know how the artisans of Akhetaten could even deal with the complexity of the situation.

There is an older paper of mine that deals with two subjects, Shu and Tefnut and also the mnemohistory of Egypt. Even the more familiar authors of the Late Period and beyond show us that history can be mixed with mythology very easily. The paper is called "The Death of Hatshepsut". Incredibly, the details of the event can even be incorporated into the text of the El Arish Shrine. This first occurred to Hans Goedicke, who didn't elaborate on it to my knowledge. So I took up the theme.
The Death of Hatshepsut
That's a paper which deserves to be read [may be lovers of Ancient Egypt with a bit of basic knowledge can appreciate it more, but anyway ... I suggest to all to read it].

About that "voici qu'il l'enleva de vive force", since I'm half French, living in North Piedmont [near to French border], Someone took something by force, no doubt. Anyway, more than the French source I'd like to see the hieroglyphics ... have you got some ideas about the original source?