Nefertiti, the Great Royal Wife of the Amarna Period

Apr 2019
199
UK
I'm not sure how much further we can go with this in the absence of new evidence to discuss and given the fact that we can't (again) examine the published DNA relating to the Amarna royal family. That is where there is something truly interesting - KV21A and B related to the family but both have some DNA from outside the other mummies in the 2010 study. We either have a previously unknown wife of Tut, or there are cracks in the identification of KV55 and KV35YL. The most likely scenario is that Tut as with other kings had a harem and the KV21 mummies represent people we just don't have the names for. The other scenario is that KV55 and KV35YL can not be Akhenaten and Nefertiti. The problem is that (as far as I see it) KV55 and KV35YL are not the parents of the KV21 mummies - yet Tut is the father of the KV62 foetuses and KV21A may be the mother.

Moving away from DNA a little, this means that Hawass' and the Egyptian team's search for further evidence is absolutely key to solving the mystery. Inscriptions of any kind could be very enlightening. In particular the mummies to find would be any of the Amarna princesses, named, so that it would be possible once and for all to ID the rest. If they are full siblings of Tut that resolves everything. If not, then we would be able to extrapolate from them who Nefertiti was and if she is from the line of Yuya and Thuya. In terms of inscriptions, anything relating to the eventual fate of the princesses in the post-Amarna period, perhaps relating to changes of name or roles in adult life (if they made it that far) would help fill in some major gaps we have. The fact that most are absent (excepting childhood items) from KV62 makes me think they were probably not around by the time he met his unexpected death.
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,251
Italy, Lago Maggiore
From a historical perspective we miss just this: inscriptions or physical evidences which can allow us to identify with absolute certainty more than one personage. The magic bricks help us to identify Akhenaten, but let's remind that there is who doesn't consider them a definitive evidence, even if I cannot imagine why someone could have decided to put the magic bricks of Akhenaten to protect the body of someone else ...
 
Nov 2016
1,179
Germany
even if I cannot imagine why someone could have decided to put the magic bricks of Akhenaten to protect the body of someone else
On this question I hinted at the following possibility in the other thread of blessed memory:

The walls of KV55 had not been decorated, which could mean that the site was not intended to be a repository at all, but possibly just a kind of workshop where the found objects could be reworked for reuse. The mummy, which are Akhenaten's or Smenkhkare's remains, should probably only be stored there temporarily. The imminent death of Ay explains why the mummy and the various items in KV55, such as Tiye's equipment and Akhenaten's bricks, which might have been intended as burial gifts for near-by KV62, were left there.
 
Mar 2019
411
Ogden, Utah
Up to your old tricks. I have good reason to pursue my investigations in the manner I have been trained. You are welcome to pursue things the way you do. You are really insecure. You are not to be questioned and respond emotionally if your beloved guesses are doubted in any way. And you can keep your childish put downs. You are unlikely to change. But that’s for you to deal with, or ignore. Good luck with that.
You don't have any good reasons because your guesses aren't even educated ones. As for my "guesses"--I have never failed to explain the reasons for coming to my conclusions in paper after paper. If someone doesn't agree with me, let that person at least give as good a reason or reasons for doing so as mine. It's fine with me and I respond logically--as always. If there was ever a childish put down--it's the one that I quote, above.
 
Mar 2019
411
Ogden, Utah
From a historical perspective we miss just this: inscriptions or physical evidences which can allow us to identify with absolute certainty more than one personage. The magic bricks help us to identify Akhenaten, but let's remind that there is who doesn't consider them a definitive evidence, even if I cannot imagine why someone could have decided to put the magic bricks of Akhenaten to protect the body of someone else ...
That's it. I have asked the question "Why would they be there?" to doubters and have never once received a satisfactory response--in fact no response at all. There is no reason why. They are just mud-bricks with inscriptions and there is no reason at all to move them from somewhere else, being absolutely of no value except to fill their magical role for the person whose name is inscribed on them. In fact, the bricks would only be present if someone took some pains to recreate a reasonable burial environment. Nowhere in 60 years of studying ancient Egypt have I ever heard of a person being interred with the magical bricks of another. KV55 is Akhenaten and the identification has only been questioned in more recent times [but not by the original examiner of the bones, Sir Grafton Elliott Smith] because they could not accept a young age-at-death for Akhenaten. These examiners were prejudiced by unerupted wisdom teeth, being unaware that those of the KV35YL never erupted, either, and her age range has been judged 30-35 by tomography. It's probably a family trait. Not everyone's wisdom teeth erupt.
 
Mar 2019
411
Ogden, Utah
Moving away from DNA a little, this means that Hawass' and the Egyptian team's search for further evidence is absolutely key to solving the mystery. Inscriptions of any kind could be very enlightening. In particular the mummies to find would be any of the Amarna princesses, named, so that it would be possible once and for all to ID the rest. If they are full siblings of Tut that resolves everything. If not, then we would be able to extrapolate from them who Nefertiti was and if she is from the line of Yuya and Thuya. In terms of inscriptions, anything relating to the eventual fate of the princesses in the post-Amarna period, perhaps relating to changes of name or roles in adult life (if they made it that far) would help fill in some major gaps we have. The fact that most are absent (excepting childhood items) from KV62 makes me think they were probably not around by the time he met his unexpected death.
KV21A is not his full sister but a relative. She and KV21B are not at all certain wives of Tutankhamun nor certain mothers of his children. They and Tut were found in the same tomb--but not the women, of course. I'm not sure that everything would be resolved of the mummy of Ankhesenamun were found. Because there were two girls named Ankhesenpaaten at Amarna.

WHO WAS THE QUEEN OF TUTANKHAMUN
 
Apr 2019
199
UK
Yep, I have un-erupted wisdom teeth except one which has decided to make an appearance this year, and I'm older than anyone has ever claimed Akhenaten to be.

The magic bricks are a convincing argument for me as well.
 
Mar 2019
411
Ogden, Utah
Forget about genetics [rules are rules ...].
Oh, yes? What about the rules of conduct here? Do you think they should apply to your buddies here, too? It doesn't appear that way to me. You're supposed to be a member of "the forum staff". So what does that mean? I assume it doesn't mean handing out towels in the mens room. I wrote that I don't like all the baseless speculation that goes on here. In fact, it's boring. In return I got a diatribe consisting of personal insults. Maybe you agree with your pal, Ayrton, that I'm too "childish" and "insecure" to do any further discussing here Maybe you think I'm up to some sort of tricks here, too, instead of bringing up valid points for discussion. I want an answer from you--in public--or you can do your discussing here without me from now on.
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,251
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Oh, yes? What about the rules of conduct here? Do you think they should apply to your buddies here, too? It doesn't appear that way to me. You're supposed to be a member of "the forum staff". So what does that mean? I assume it doesn't mean handing out towels in the mens room. I wrote that I don't like all the baseless speculation that goes on here. In fact, it's boring. In return I got a diatribe consisting of personal insults. Maybe you agree with your pal, Ayrton, that I'm too "childish" and "insecure" to do any further discussing here Maybe you think I'm up to some sort of tricks here, too, instead of bringing up valid points for discussion. I want an answer from you--in public--or you can do your discussing here without me from now on.
Within the moderating team we have agreed on a simple internal rule: if a moderator is directly and too involved in a thread it's better that the other moderators moderate that discussion.

Anyway ... your reaction makes me realize that you consider an "ad hominem" what Ayrton did. You haven't reported him, but technically a public request of action to a moderator is substantially equal to a report.

So, the moderating team is going to consider your complaint.
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,251
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Ops ... @Alcandra

I'm reading now the reports and I note you have reported Ayrton. [Since you have requested a public answer I add this note in public].