New flags for former rebel states in USA



Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
Chalfont, Pennsylvania
The thought has occurred to me that former rebel states might possibly want in the future to show their loyalty to the USA by adopting new state flags with a loyal meaning, or possibly the US government might encourage or force them to do so in the future.

This thread is for discussions of possible designs for such hypothetical future flags.

The rebel states officially began their attempts at succession on the following dates:
20 December 1860: South Carolina.
9 January 1861: Mississippi.
10 January 1861: Florida.
11 January 1861: Alabama.
19 January 1861: Georgia.
26 January 1861: Louisiana.
1 February 1861: Texas.
17 April 1861: Virginia.
06 May 1961: Arkansas.
06 May 1861: Tennessee.
20 May 1861: North Carolina.
31 October 1861: Missouri.
20 November 1861: Kentucky.

Missouri and Kentucky were never fully controlled by rebels and were more often controlled by the Union during the conflict.

The dates that the rebel states were admitted to the Union were:

2 January 1788: Georgia (4).
23 May 1788: South Carolina (8).
25 June 1788: Virginia (10).
21 November 1789: North Carolina (12).
1 June 1792: Kentucky (15).
1 June 1796: Tennessee (16).
30 April 1812: Louisiana (18).
10 December 1817: Mississippi (20).
14 December 1819: Alabama (22).
10 August 1821: Missouri (24).
15 June 1836: Arkansas (25).
3 March 1845: Florida (27).
29 December 1845: Texas (28)

This suggests that former rebel states could adopt new flags each showing a design like the blue canton of the US flag, and with a number of stars equaling the state's number in order of joining the Union.

But 11 or 13 state flags of that design would be hard to tell apart. fortunately early US flags showed a lot of imagination in the arrangement of the stars.

Sometimes the stars were arranged in a rectangular set of rows, sometimes identical rows and sometimes staggered rows with different numbers of Stars.

Sometimes the stars were arranged in a circle, sometimes in concentric circles, sometimes with one star in the center and/or four stars in the corners.

Sometimes the stars could be arranged in a giant star.

Sometimes the star were arranged in giant hollow squares and rectangles.

Stars can be arranged in triangular set of rows. One star in the first row, 2 stars in the second row (total 3), three stars in the third row (total 6), 4 stars in the fourth row (total 10 for Virginia), five stars in the fifth row (total 15 for Kentucky), six stars in the sixth row (total 21).

Or there could be four rows with 1, 2, 3 and 3 stars, making 12 total for North Carolina.

Stars can be arranged in heraldic ordinaries and geometric figures one, two, or three stars thick.

A vertical bar or pale. Two stars wide by five stars high for Virginia. Two stars wide by six stars high for North Carolina. Three stars wide by five stars high for Kentucky. Three stars wide by six stars high for Louisiana. Three stars wide by eight stars high for Missouri.

Or a horizontal bar or fess.

A cross is a pale and a fess crossing. A cross with three stars in each arm and no star in the center would have twelve stars for North Carolina. A cross with four stars in each vertical arm and three in each horizontal plus one in the center point would have fifteen for Kentucky. A cross with four stars two by two in each arm and a blank central space would have 16 stars for Tennessee.

A bend is a diagonal bar from upper right of the field (the upper left of the observer) to the lower left of the field (the lower right of the observer).

A bend sinister is a bend going the other way.

A saltire is a bend crossing a bend sinister, or a diagonal cross.

A chevron is like the beams of a gable or an upside down letter V.

A chief is a horizontal band across the top of the field.

A pairle or pale is a Y shape.

A pile is an upside down triangle.

And of course the blue field with the stars doesn't have to be the only part of the new sate flag.

If flags with plain designs of blue fields with arrangements of white stars become hard to tell apart when the number of stars gets too geat, more design elements can be added to the flag.

The blue field with stars could be part of a larger design with various design elements. It could be as small as in the US Flag or occupy most of the area of the flag. It could have the thirteen red and white stripes of the US. The stripes could be horizontal as in the US flag, vertical as in the US Coast Guard ensign, or in bends, or in bends sinister.

Or the field could be divided by cross lines or saltire lines into four smaller fields with the stripes in various combinations of horizontal, vertical, bends, or bends sinister.

And the field with the stars could be in the upper hoist as in the US flag, or the upper fly end, the lower fly end, the lower hoist end, or the center of the flag surrounded by the stripes.

Thus, even without changing the colors of the various design elements, various possible numbers and arrangements of the stars combined with various possible placements of the field with the stars and various possible arrangements of the stripes should make more than enough possible designs for state flags to all fifty present states in the USA even eliminating the ones that resemble past, present, and future United States flags.

And of course this is just one possible method of designing new state flags for the former rebel states.

Code Blue

Ad Honorem
Feb 2015
The thought has occurred to me that former rebel states might possibly want in the future to show their loyalty to the USA by adopting new state flags with a loyal meaning
I am not a southerner, don't like grits, and don't like the dialect - but even I am insulted by that condescension. :lol:

Saltire, Canton? I do appreciate you facility with vexillology

or possibly the US government might encourage or force them to do so in the future.
Zieg Heil?
Likes: Futurist


Ad Honorem
Oct 2014
appalacian Mtns
Your civil war was 150 odd years ago---when will you get over it?
Well, my great grandfather fought in it, so 4 generations isn't enough. I'm old enough too remember when the last War of Northern Aggression Vet died. Perhaps the next generation or 2 will not have known & talked too any of them. We still haven't gotten over the redcoats shelling Baltimore though, so I predict it'll be even longer too get over the bluebellies burning Atlanta.
Feb 2016
Hmmm. I'm not a southern sympathizer but I'd side with them on this. It's their flag. They can keep it or loose it as their will demands and not at the whim of anyone else.

I can't imagine them listening or excepting any new designs they didn't agree to.


Ad Honorem
Oct 2014
appalacian Mtns
Where do yaw get the grits thang frum anyhow? I never saw grits growing up. Definatley not a Appalachian thang. Breakfast was always sawmill gravy & biscuits, if we were lucky we got a little country ham & redeye gravy.
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