No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs - no facts?

May 2011
13,736
Navan, Ireland
I am sure I have replied to this thread long agobut to repear.

Asked my in laws who were Irish immigrants in the UK during the 1960's did they know of such signs, they said they had 'heard' of them but never seen them---- but they would have been 'good tenants'.

Claire Willis in the 'Neutral Isle' says that such signs existed but stressed they have they have to be seen in context --the Irish immigrants were usually young men who liked drink and as reputation for causing trouble. The boarding houses were usually run by women and they were their homes and only source of income.
 
Jan 2019
5
Vienna
Not claiming there wasnt discriminations against blacks and (to a lesser extent) irish in england after ww2.
Not saying there werent signs saying "no irish", "no dogs", and saying "no blacks"
What i am very doubtful that there were more than a tiny insignificant number of signs saying
"No blacks, no irish, no dogs" (in whatever order)
 

Nemowork

Ad Honorem
Jan 2011
8,255
South of the barcodes
Yes but that gets back to anecdotal evidence, you know someone who claims to have seen one.
Richard Harris claims to have stolen one and kept it in his lodgings when he was young.

What we're short of is actual evidence of existence, somebody prosecuted under the 1960 and 64 race relations laws for having one, somebody with photos. Theres plenty of evidence of their use in America and job adverts restricting Irish from applying in the 19th century but these signs still remain ephemeral.
 
Jun 2010
3,336
Colorado Springs (PA at heart)
Yes but that gets back to anecdotal evidence, you know someone who claims to have seen one.
Richard Harris claims to have stolen one and kept it in his lodgings when he was young.

What we're short of is actual evidence of existence, somebody prosecuted under the 1960 and 64 race relations laws for having one, somebody with photos. Theres plenty of evidence of their use in America and job adverts restricting Irish from applying in the 19th century but these signs still remain ephemeral.
Does it really matter? What difference does the exact terminology of whether "dogs" are included or not matter? There is more than enough proof that there was rampant prejudice against blacks and Irish for a significant period of history. Who cares if one particular sign including "dogs" was actually used/prevalent, or just a myth? I can understand wanting to get the historical facts right, but unless you're writing a book or something, I think it's enough to know that there was plenty of anti-Irish and anti-black sentiment in history, and plenty of proof of it.
 
Jan 2019
5
Vienna
It's true. 100% fact.

My black friend's dad and another friend's Irish dad remember them.
Thing is, i have (in other online forums) pressed people who say they remember them. In every case, they would eventually concede that "ok it didnt say that exactly, but something along those lines" this makes me think it is people remembering a false memory.
 

Nemowork

Ad Honorem
Jan 2011
8,255
South of the barcodes
Does it really matter? What difference does the exact terminology of whether "dogs" are included or not matter? There is more than enough proof that there was rampant prejudice against blacks and Irish for a significant period of history. Who cares if one particular sign including "dogs" was actually used/prevalent, or just a myth? I can understand wanting to get the historical facts right, but unless you're writing a book or something, I think it's enough to know that there was plenty of anti-Irish and anti-black sentiment in history, and plenty of proof of it.
You don't find those two points contradictory?
 
Jun 2010
3,336
Colorado Springs (PA at heart)
You don't find those two points contradictory?
No. For one, you're looking for proof that anti-Irish sentiment and racism was prevalent, the other you're looking for proof of one specific type of sign, and you don't need proof of that particular sign to prove anti-Irish sentiment and racism was prevalent.
 

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