North Italy and South Italy

May 2019
277
Northern and Western hemispheres
After WWII in the European Theater ends the Western Allies decide to partition Italy into northern and southern halves. How would Italians react to this and how long will they remain separate until they reunify.
 
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Chlodio

Forum Staff
Aug 2016
4,986
Dispargum
I assume you mean that Northern Italy would be occupied by the Soviets. In which case Italy would probably only reunify in the 1990s, like Germany did. Unless Northern Italy wanted to remain its own country, even without Communism, in which case the two Italies might never reunify.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
23,547
SoCal
After WWII in the European Theater ends the Western Allies decide to partition Italy into northern and southern halves. How would Italians react to this and how long will they remain separate until they reunify.
The Italians are likely going to be extremely angry at this just like the Germans, Koreans, and Vietnamese were in real life. The Italians would also view this as being a case of the Western Allies unnecessarily selling out a huge part of their country and countrymen to the Soviet Union. I do agree with @Chlodio that this Italy (barring any butterfly effects) is likely to only reunify after the end of the Cold War--so, in 1989 or later. Interestingly enough, in this scenario, northern Italy is highly likely to be the poorer and more economically underdeveloped part of Italy--thus resulting in much less immigration to there and in a lot of migration from northern Italy to southern Italy (in spite of southern Italy being Mafia-filled and whatnot). Northern Italy is also likely to be much more hostile towards immigration in this scenario--just like Eastern Europe is right now in real life in comparison to Western Europe. This might also mean a greater northern Italian hostility towards gay rights in this scenario--given the prevalent homophobia in a lot of Eastern European ex-Communist countries in real life.
 
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May 2019
277
Northern and Western hemispheres
I assume you mean that Northern Italy would be occupied by the Soviets. In which case Italy would probably only reunify in the 1990s, like Germany did. Unless Northern Italy wanted to remain its own country, even without Communism, in which case the two Italies might never reunify.
I do consider the situation in which Soviets occupy northern Italy. I also have in mind the situation in which Northern Italy wishes to remain its own country without communism. I agree with your assessment of when a divided Italy will reunify.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
23,547
SoCal
OK. Also, in order for northern Italy to actually voluntarily want to be separate from southern Italy, you're going to need to have a much less potent Italian nationalism--or, at the very least, much more Great Power opposition to Italian unification. Maybe a Bourbon-led France would have been much more hostile towards allowing Piedmont-Sardinia to conquer the Bourbon Kingdom of the Two Sicilies.
 
Mar 2019
53
Europe
The Italians are likely going to be extremely angry at this just like the Germans, Koreans, and Vietnamese were in real life. The Italians would also view this as being a case of the Western Allies unnecessarily selling out a huge part of their country and countrymen to the Soviet Union. I do agree with @Chlodio that this Italy (barring any butterfly effects) is likely to only reunify after the end of the Cold War--so, in 1989 or later. Interestingly enough, in this scenario, northern Italy is highly likely to be the poorer and more economically underdeveloped part of Italy--thus resulting in much less immigration to there and in a lot of migration from northern Italy to southern Italy (in spite of southern Italy being Mafia-filled and whatnot). Northern Italy is also likely to be much more hostile towards immigration in this scenario--just like Eastern Europe is right now in real life in comparison to Western Europe. This might also mean a greater northern Italian hostility towards gay rights in this scenario--given the prevalent homophobia in a lot of Eastern European ex-Communist countries in real life.
I don't know what do you mean by the "prevalent homophobia" in Eastern Europe. We have LGBT parades as just about every country in Europe. It's just that we still haven't turned left at 180 degrees like the West. WE haven't surrendered our countries to outsiders. We didn't ban diesel/fuel cars and definitely do not give subsidies to electromobiles.
I think your comparisions are very out-of-touch.
The current trends are East Europe to become more wealthy while the West is gradually declining. Thanks to LGBT and migrant-acceptance.
But hey... we might have very different political views.
No offence.
When you have France and Italy with gdp growth just slightly above 0, and "underdeveloped" countries like Romania with 4% growth/yearly (Hungary over 5%), you know who's on the right path...
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
23,547
SoCal
I don't know what do you mean by the "prevalent homophobia" in Eastern Europe. We have LGBT parades as just about every country in Europe. It's just that we still haven't turned left at 180 degrees like the West. WE haven't surrendered our countries to outsiders. We didn't ban diesel/fuel cars and definitely do not give subsidies to electromobiles.
I think your comparisions are very out-of-touch.
The current trends are East Europe to become more wealthy while the West is gradually declining. Thanks to LGBT and migrant-acceptance.
But hey... we might have very different political views.
No offence.
When you have France and Italy with gdp growth just slightly above 0, and "underdeveloped" countries like Romania with 4% growth/yearly (Hungary over 5%), you know who's on the right path...
Romania is poorer than France and Italy is--which probably significantly helps explain why Romania is growing much faster than France and Italy are.

As for what I meant in regards to gay rights and immigration, here you go:





Also, I certainly wouldn't say that Western Europe is declining as a result of gay rights. As for Muslim immigration, however, it would probably be nice to be more selective in regards to this. The US appears to do a better job in regards to this.
 
Dec 2017
320
Regnum Teutonicum
As north and south Italians are divided even now, I am not 100 % sure Italy would have reunified, if dived for a few decades. After all Romania and Moldavia did not reunify either. In case reunification did happen, the differences between the two would be even more pronounced than today. A lot depends, if the poorer south or the richer north would fall into the communist hands. An additional question: what would happen with Vatican City? Would it stay the way it is, would it get a small access to the sea and form a buffer between the two Italies on part of the border or would a neutral Vatican City get all of Latium?
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,597
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Actually thinking to the recent Italian history it's not easy to imagine such a scenario:

after WWII, in historical reality, Northern Italy saw a continuous development of its industrial areas with an increase of production and richness. This generated an impressive internal migration [more than 4,000,000 of Southerns migrated here looking for a job in some decades]. I wonder if this was possible in case Northern Italy became a Socialist Republic ... I don't think so. NATO would have had to encourage the industrialization of the South [US would have probably started a targeted plan to help the Southerns] and in the meanwhile America, West Germany, France, UK, Belgium would have had to welcome well more Italians than what they did in reality.

I guess that Washington would have given importance to the Vatican, because of its social and political weight, but without causing troubles to the South [which probably would have remained a Monarchy, considering how Southerns voted in occasion of the referendum for the Republic].

And this would have meant that after the fall of the Soviet block we would have seen two Italies: an Italian Republic in the North [quite lay and atheist] and a Catholic Italian Kingdom in the South, with scarce possibilities of reunification.