Nubia/Ta-Seti - The oldest monarch - Civilization on Earth

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Closed
Nov 2018
112
Kentucky
#1


"THE WHOLE EFFORT OF MODERN SCIENCE, UNTIL THE PAST FEW YEARS, HAS CONSISTED IN DENYING, DESPITE THE FACTS, THIS ROLE OF THE NEGRO IN THE ACQUISITION OF CIVILIZATION".. C.A. DIOP; AFRICAN ORIGINS OF CIVILIZATION, PG 250​

The Qustul incense burner depicted below is proof of Nubia being the first dynastic civilization on Earth. It shows a pharaoh identical to what would later characterize Kemet prior to Kemet's founding dynasty by Mena Narmer. The finding by Keith Seal also depicted 12 other African kings before the one presiding on the incense burner. This gave it hundreds of years on Kemet's first dynasty (which is when Western scholars will call Kemet a civilization). Many scholars place the origin even further back. According to Boyce Rensberger it was around the early 6th millennium that dynastic Ta-Seti is said to have came into existence. The migrants into the Fertile Crescent at the time were still getting agriculture together, while Nubia had a monarchy (a clear social order for humans) established. Boyce Rensberger reports in the 1979 NYtimes article about the discovery;

"Nubian Monarchy Called Oldest"...."Evidence of the oldest recognizable monarchy in human history, preceding the rise of the earliest Egyptian kings by several generations, has been discovered in artifacts from ancient Nubia.".... "The first kings of Ta-Seti may well have ruled about 5900 BC. During the time of the fifth generation of their rulers, Upper (ie, southern) Egypt may have united and became a greater threat to Ta-Seti." - Boyce Rensberger​


Ta-Seti's origins date according to Rensberger coincides with the beginning phases of desertification. The second phase of desertification during the 5th and 4th millennium B.C.E. brought a new wave of Kushites (dubbed the "Ma Confederation" by Dr. C. Winters) from the Sahara, and subsequently the spreading of post ice age "civilization" followed as those Africans (which included Dravidian "Indians") migrated onto the Nile Valley and into the Aegean (the "mysterious" Palesgian populations) and the Near East establishing the city state of Sumer and the Indus Valley. The abandoning of dynastic Ta-Seti lead to the rise of Kemet's first dynasty by 3,200 B.C.E. as those Africans from Ta-Seti-Qustul moved north from northern Sudan into Kemet. The culture's were so identical that first dynasty Kemet was referred to as a "Sudanese transplants" by some scholars. This correlates with what the ancient Greek historians reported regarding Nubia being the mother of "Egypt" and the "longest lived" (and even the most beautiful people at the time according to the Greeks) people on Earth;

‘the tallest, most beautiful and long-lived of the human races,’ - Herodotus

‘the most just of men; the favorites of the gods.’ - Homer

It was recently found interestingly that one of the oldest permanent structures on Earth has been found in Sudan (Nubia) with a date range of 17,000 to - 70,000 BP. This finding referred to as Affad 23, Sudan is older than any permanent structure outside of the African continent (as should be expected);


It's sad how Western officials are trying to revert back to promote to the ignorant World the same racist ideologies of the 18th - 20th century that have already been debunked. They've resorted to blatantly hiding artifacts found in Africa because of the paradigm shift in academia that would follow when it's out. Notice how despite this fact being known for about half century now, it's not reflected in what we teach our kids. Notice there is NO mention of Nubia (the third most mentioned place in the Bible outside of Israel and Egypt) in the list of World ancient civilizations. They keep trying to promote this narrative African promote this narrative that Africans have only lived in Sub Saharan Africa and only recently invented civilization our own. That's crazy because in reality the truth is the opposite of what's clearly implied about intellectual capacity.



He took the secret of his discovery to his grave, because he did not want it to be known that Africans were the first to create civilization.

 

Ighayere

Ad Honorem
Jul 2012
2,358
Benin City, Nigeria
#2
An older version of the iconography on the Qustul incense burner was later found on an artifact further north in non-Nubian Egyptian territory. So this whole argument is a non-starter. Even if the oldest monarchy on earth actually had been in Nubia this wouldn't be the proof of that.
 
Nov 2018
112
Kentucky
#3
What is the older iconography? Does it dispute the implications of Qustul? Those implications being that not only the artifact's age itself, but the fact that it showed the oldest form of "Egyptian" writing (would logically make it Nubian rather than "Egyptian") and writing system in general and told of generations going back at least 4 centuries depicting Nubian kings that preceded before that King depicted on the burner. There is no way around that fact. This is the oldest recorded monarch based civilization on Earth period!

"Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant."(Egypt and Sub-Saharan Africa: Their Interaction. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472 )

Do you actually dispute the fact that the Kemet came out of Nubia? :eek:
 

Ighayere

Ad Honorem
Jul 2012
2,358
Benin City, Nigeria
#4
You can read about the older iconography here:

Between Two Worlds

If you think that that doesn't dispute the implications that you have suggested you of course have the right to a differing opinion, but for me I don't think what you're proposing holds true in light of the finds of earlier uses of such iconography.
 
Nov 2018
112
Kentucky
#5
The entire notion of "Egypt" and Nubia especially prior to Narmer's unification being separate civilizations, is completely false. This is a Western attempt to make racial separation between the two civilizations. This has been proven by Dr. Theophile Obenga:



and even recently verified by Western scholars:

More recently, our own Western prejudices — namely the idea that geographic Egypt was not a part of “black” Africa — have contributed to the dearth of knowledge about Nubia. The early-20th-century archaeologist George Reisner, for instance, identified large burial mounds at the site of Kerma as the remains of high Egyptian officials instead of those of Nubian kings. (Several of Reisner’s finds are in the show, reattributed to the Nubians.)
In one of his catalog essays the archaeologist Geoff Emberling, who conceived the show along with Jennifer Chi of the institute, examines some of these historical errors.
We now recognize that populations of Nubia and Egypt form a continuum rather than clearly distinct groups,” Mr. Emberling writes, “and that it is impossible to draw a line between Egypt and Nubia that would indicate where ‘black’ begins.

link

I don't know if you know or not, but the Qustul incense burner, was only the cherry on top of icing as far as confirming that "theory" of Kemet coming out of Nubia. Now I can concede to revelation of a recent finding, but again...are you actually denying that the area that would known as Kemet came out of Nubia?
 
Oct 2017
62
UK
#8
The oldest civilization with the oldest writing and the oldest pyramids are the SUMERIANS.
History of writing - Wikipedia

Farming began in the Levant about 12 000 years go and was taken into Europe, India and Egypt/North Africa. The first ancient cultures of Egypt were all Middle Eastern in origin, Merimde, Maadi, Fayum, Tasian (Upper Egypt) Farming developed into city states of which Thinis was the most powerful and would conquer the other city states of Upper and Lower Egypt.

Nubians and Egyptians were never the same people, although Egyptians did interbreed with Nubians changing mostly their Y-DNA but not their MTDNA.

Hieroglyphics are said to have been found on the Gerzean pottery and dated 4000BC in Lower Egypt.
Egyptian hieroglyphs - Wikipedia

Egyptian cvilization is said to have originated after the Sumerian and Indus Valley Civilization with the ancient Egyptians being influenced by the Sumerians.
Mesopotamian influences on early Egypt
 
Nov 2018
112
Kentucky
#9
But like I said, earlier uses of such iconography were found by archaeologists.
Once again, the notion of a "distinction" between "Kemet" and Nubia is a false Western concept that Western academia is finally coming to grips with. Western scholars with racist agendas initially tried to say that the "racial" border was around where Aswan is today. There was "Nile Valley Civilization" that formed a continuum both culturally and biologically (meaning that they were both black Africans as well). To add to that point the populations of ancient Northeast Africa and the Nile Valley in general were a hodgepodge of distinct black African (NIger-Congo speakers, Nilo Saharan speakers, Cushitic speakers, Tamil-Indians) throughout the entire Nile Valley after desertification and prior to slew of non African invasions. They have found royal tomb remains from some Africoid groups located deeper into what used to be distinguished in academia as Nubia buried in southern Dynastic Kemet. Then again further up the Nile into inner Africa is where the "Kemites" stated that the land of the Gods was.


Well as far as the iconography goes there have been even more recent discoveries earlier depictions of Dynastic civilization an even earlier version of the Pharonic rule in what Western scholars once incorrectly defined distinctly as Nubia (Nag el-Hamdulab specially).



Which is amusingly still technically "Nubia" by their own now void and meaningless definition.

 
Nov 2018
112
Kentucky
#10
The oldest civilization with the oldest writing and the oldest pyramids are the SUMERIANS.
History of writing - Wikipedia

Actually "Nile Valley civilization" is the oldest form of "civilization" on Earth. You have been presented in the first post with archaeological findings of second oldest permanent structures on Earth (the oldest are Adam's calendar in South Africa) found in Affad 23, Sudan (ancient "Nubia") dating back to around 17,000 years at it's youngest. You were also shown where the oldest monarchy's on Earth reigned in Nile Valley civilization with estimates between the 6th-early 4th millennium BC.

With regards to writing this is what is said in the link that you gave regarding the development about Kemet's writing in comparison with Sumeria's:

"The tomb is dated to c. 3250 BC and demonstrates that such writing (on bone and ivory labels) is a more advanced form of writing than was evident in Sumer at that date. It is argued, therefore, that the Egyptian writing system, which is in any case very different from the Mesopotamian, could not have been the result of influence from a less-developed system existing at that date in Sumer."
"The Study of Writing Systems", in The World's Writing Systems, ed. Bright and Daniels, p.3
Instead evidence implies that the opposite is true:

He concluded his presentation by noting similarities between specific Egyptian and Mesopotamian objects and suggesting that perhaps there is an initial influence of Egyptian writing on Mesopotamia because there are signs on Mesopotamian objects that are only "readable" from the standpoint of the Egyptian language, but not the Mesopotamian language.
"Too Much Stuff": Recent Finds in Predynastic Egypt
By Mario Beatty, Ph.D.
Farming began in the Levant about 12 000 years go and was taken into Europe, India and Egypt/North Africa.
Actually as stated earlier the ancient Northeast African populations were comprised of various different Africans populations including those now ancestral to Niger-Congo speakers today in West, South, Central Africa. These affinities which also include sickle cell anemia have been found on a trail along the migration route of the first farmers known as the Natufians;




The first ancient cultures of Egypt were all Middle Eastern in origin, Merimde, Maadi, Fayum, Tasian (Upper Egypt)
Where are you getting this information from? Not to be insulting but that is laughable;

"While not attempting to underestimate the contribution that Deltaic political and religious institutions made to those of a united Egypt, many Egyptologists now discount the idea that a united prehistoric kingdom of Lower Egypt ever existed."...."While communities such as Ma'adi appear to have played an important role in entrepots through which goods and ideas form south-west Asia filtered into the Nile Valley in later prehistoric times, the main cultural and political tradition that gave rise to the cultural pattern of Early Dynastic Egypt is to be found not in the north but in the south.":
The Cambridge History of Africa: Volume 1, From the Earliest Times to c. 500 BC, (Cambridge University Press: 1982), Edited by J. Desmond Clark pp. 500-509​

Nubians and Egyptians were never the same people, although Egyptians did interbreed with Nubians changing mostly their Y-DNA but not their MTDNA.
This yet another incorrect statement. The graphic below contains quotes from some of the most renown Egyptologist and archaeologist. You have again also been presented with the quote earlier from more recent top tier Western scholarship blatantly saying that there was no distinction between "Kemet" and "Nubia", and rather there was a continuous civilization through the entire Nile Valley comprised of distinct types of black Africans (no one else).



Egyptian cvilization is said to have originated after the Sumerian and Indus Valley Civilization with the ancient Egyptians being influenced by the Sumerians.
Mesopotamian influences on early Egypt
The similarities between early Bronze Age civilizations are overwhelming, and that is because the originators all came from one general source. The Sumerians were simply Africoid migrant populations from the ancient Sahara/Nile Valley which included the Dravidian populations of India today. The first person to discover the ancient Sumerians was absolutely certain that they were ancient Nubians from the UPPER Nile Valley.

John Baldwin wrote in his book “PreHistoric Nations” (1869): “The early colonists of Babylonia were of the same race as the inhabitants of the Upper Nile.
and

Chandra Chakaberty “A Study in Hindu Social Polity” - “based on the statuaries and steles of Babylonia, the Sumerians were “of dark complexion (chocolate colour), short stature, but of sturdy frame, oval face, stout nose, straight hair, full head; they typically resembled the Dravidians, not only in cranium, but almost in all the details.

Here is the source of early Bronze Age civilizations The fertile Saharan Desert in Africa. Once it began to dry people and ideas began to spread



I maintain that Nile Valley is the ultimate source of agriculture, especially given its indisputable close relationship with the Naufians (the earlier Mushabi culture and the situation in Gebel Sahaba, Sudan). The first post has a video which explains the findings of the earliest farmers going back to the Nile Valley around 15,000 BC (I'll try to find to the exact source for the claim)




 
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