Oda Nobunaga vs Uesugi Kenshin vs Takeda Shingen

[TheDragonOfKai]

If anybody has seen One Piece, I kind of consider Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin to be like the Yonkos (extremely powerful, but nearing the end of their prime) and Nobunaga, Hideyoshi and Ieyasu to be like the Worst Generation (prime talents of a new generation). This is despite the fact that Oda was only 4 years younger to Kenshin

I personally think that Kenshin would win in a straight battle as despite the fact that the other two were great commanders in their own right, he was the tactically superior fighter (imo). He baited Nobunaga beautifully at Tedorigawa and almost defeated Shingen by outmaneuvering him at the fourth battle of Kawanakajima (granted, he lost, but imo he could've won that).

But then again, this is my opinion. What do you all think? I think the legend that Shingen parried Kenshin's blade with a signalling fan is pretty cool

 

[Naomasa298]

Kenshin ftw.

 

[TheDragonOfKai]

Kenshin ftw.

My man literally was two steps ahead of his opponents. So sad that he got killed by a ninja in his toilet xD

 

[Naomasa298]

My man literally was two steps ahead of his opponents. So sad that he got killed by a ninja in his toilet xD

"He"?

 

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I don't think that Oda Nobunaga should be considered a new generation warlord. Considering that during his lifetime had simultaneously made alliances with Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin. Tokugawa Ieyasu, while in alliance with Oda Nobunaga, had also formed an alliance with Takeda Shingen to invade what remained of the Imagawa clan in 1569.

It was only later when Takeda Shingen broke his agreements with Oda Nobunaga and Tokugawa Ieyasu that Oda Nobunaga firmly came down on the side of Uesugi Kenshin in 1573. However Nobunaga had been undertaking serious campaigns since 1560, true he had spent much of the 1550's campaigning in Owari province, and the Takeda and Uesugi had a head start. The only reason, in my view at least, that it seems like Nobunaga was a new generation is because while Nobunaga was campaigning in the Home Provinces and expanding his domain, the Takeda and Uesugi were stuck in a deadlock.

So it isn't that Kenshin and Shingen were much older and that their careers had basically ended by the time Nobunaga showed up. The sad reality is that they just weren't able to compete. Kenshin had no achieved any of his major ambitions until about 1570 when he began to conquer the provinces to his east: Etchu, Noto and Kaga. Shingen for his part had conquered Shinano in the 1550's. However other than invasions of Kozuke and Suruga in the 1560's, his main challenge was the invasions of Totomi and Mikawa in 1572/73, and his untimely death.

Also look at it this way. Kenshin was able to defeat Shibata Katsuie, who was basically Nobunaga's viceroy in the north east, and both of them were roughly evenly matched. At that same time in 1577, Nobunaga was busy putting down a revolt by Matsunaga Hisahide in Yamato, and trying to secure his positions in Settsu from a Mori clan counter attack. Now imagine if Nobunaga had instead been able to concentrate those troops which he had in Echizen and the ones he had in Yamato province, to fight against Uesugi Kenshin instead. Kenshin wouldn't have taken Noto and Kaga, probably retreating instead. Not that Nobunaga wanted to break with his traditional ally Uesugi Kenshin. But also during the 1577 Tedorigawa campaign, Shibata had to deal with an insurgency by the Ikko Ikki in Echizen and Kaga behind his position.

 

[richiethewanderer]

Nobunaga all day everyday and twice on sunday

 

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I mean 1573 was the year in which Takeda Shingen died, the Azai clan was wiped out, the Asakura clan was annihilated, the Miyoshi clan was beaten once and for all, and the Shogun Ashikaga Yoshiaki was banished from Kyoto. Nobunaga took the reigns of government and declared a new era. Basically every other warlord would have taken a decade to accomplish this.

Not to hate on my boy Uesugi Kenshin, he was pretty great all things considered. His 4th Kawanakajima and Tedorigawa will always go down in legend. Surprising Takeda Shingen in 1561 was beautiful. His deadlock with the much more powerful Takeda was admirable. His rapidly seizing Noto province and intercepting Shibata Katsuie's advance is also an amazing campaign. I would argue that Uesugi Kenshin was leagues ahead of many generals in both tactical and strategic ability. In my view I put him in the top 3 together with Oda Nobunaga and Hideyoshi.