Old Europe (Vinca) language and culture in early layers of Serbian and Irish culture

May 2013
333
ireland
#1
Old European (Vinca) language and culture in early layers of Serbian and Irish language and culture
Many years ago I noticed strange similarities between Irish and Serbian mythology, language, toponymes and hydronymes. This was a mystery because according to history, these two peoples never lived in the same area of Europe at the same time, and therefore should not have been able to influence each other. And yet the number of similar or identical cultural, religious and linguistic characteristics kept growing. Also, people between the Balkans and Ireland did not share these cultural traits. This meant that there was no cultural diffusion. The conclusion was that these two people (Serbian and Irish) must have lived together somewhere at some point in history in order to mix their languages and cultures so much.
While trying to uncover potential meeting point, I first looked at Viking invasions from the south Baltic. While there were many things pointing to a substantial West Slavic presence among the Danish Vikings who settled in England and Ireland, this all happened too late in order to explain hundreds of old Irish words and names which were identical to the Serbian ones. Not only were these words the same, they came in clusters and could often have a root in only one of languages with complex words being present in both. It also could not explain the early medieval Irish personal names which had meaning in Serbian. It also could not explain all the grammatical constructs which were identical in Irish and in Serbian. Vikings just didn’t have that big a cultural influence to force the Irish to accept Slavic grammar.
I then looked at the Ango – Saxon period and discovered that there was a significant West Slavic (Wendish) presence in the Angles alliance. They settled in large areas of England, and there was a possibility that some unrecorded Angles settlements did appear in Ireland in the early medieval time with significant West Slavic population. But again this could not explain all the grammatical constructs which were identical in Irish and in Serbian. If there were Angles settlements in Ireland in the early medieval time, they again just didn’t have that big a cultural influence to force the Irish to accept Slavic grammar. Also there was a problem of even earlier archaeological finds, linked to the iron age, which had Serbian and Slavic characteristics. There were too many old customs, legends, sacred sites which had their counterparts in Slavic countries and particularly Balkan South Slavic countries.
So I looked at Rome, and Roman invasions of Britain and wandered was this maybe the source of common cultural characteristics between the Irish and the Serbs. But Romans never entered Ireland and there is no known record of Irish mercenaries in the Roman army, so that removed a possible connection once again.
So I looked at Iron Age period and found many things which pointed to a significant cultural influx from the south Baltic. There was a great similarity between Lusatian culture in the south Baltic and the Iron Age cultures in Ireland and England, and it seems that the Iron Age was brought to Ireland on the spears and swords of the people from south Baltic. This was a good starting point. The warrior elite from the Baltic could have brought with them their beliefs, their language and their customs, and forced them on the people they encountered in Ireland. But that would not explain the huge number of toponymes and hydronimes in the Balkans which have no meaning in Slavic languages but do have meaning in Irish. And these toponymes and hydronimes come in clusters and are tightly connected with the location of the Balkan tumulus culture sites. Also this would not explain the presence of all the words, and grammatical constructs which only exist in Irish and in certain dialects of south Slavic languages and particularly in some old dialects of Serbian. This also would not explain all the base words in South Slavic languages which can be broken down and explained using Irish. For this to be possible, Irish speaking people had to be present in the Balkans in great numbers for a very long time during the Iron Age and even during the Bronze Age.
So I looked at Celts as a possible cultural link between the two people. They were the rulers of central Europe, precisely the area between the Baltic and the Balkans. That would have given them the ability to influence both the Irish and the people who would later become the Western Slavs. But Celts never had any significant long term presence in the Balkans. They came through the Balkans on the way to Asia Minor in the 3rd century bc. But their main strongholds were in the area above Danube. The area below Danube was the land of the Illyrians. Illyrians and Celts were by some people linked and called Celto – Illyrians. This certainly was a good lead. If Illyrians actually spoke the same or similar language to the Celts, then that would explain all the similarities between the Irish and Serbian languages but only if we accept that both the Irish and Serbian languages are direct descendants of the Celto Illyrian language and that Celtic and Illyrian were the same language.
This was already getting very controversial, as this would mean that there is a cultural continuity in the area between the Baltic and the Balkan lasting for more than 2500 years. This would mean that there is an underlying Celtic cultural layer in the Slavic culture and that the Slavic culture was created as a fusion of the Celtic and Skito Sarmatian cultures? The similarities between the Irish and Serbian cultures would then be the Celtic layer, and that would allow us to decipher the Celtic language from Irish and Slavic languages. This was very exciting. But there were things that could not be explained with the Celtic connection.
First it could not explain the amount of the words, customs, legends from old Rome and old Greece which could not be explained through Old Greek and Latin but could using Irish and Serbian language and culture. The only way this was possible was that somehow these cultural influences came to Italy and Greece from the Balkans at the time before the formation of both Kingdome of Rome and the Classical Greece. And there were plenty of ancient historical texts, as well as archaeological data that pointed to exactly that was the case.
The latest archaeological data from Serbia confirms that iron was invented in the Balkans. The earliest iron metallurgical centre in the world, dated to 14th–13th century b BC, was found in south eastern Serbia in the hill fort settlement on the hill called Hisar. This site belongs to the earliest proto Illyrian period.
So there was a culture in the Balkans powerful enough to influence Rome, Greece and Celtic central Europe. This had moved the meeting point where the future Irish and Serbs lived together to the Balkans in the end of the second and the beginning of the first millennium BC and identified the Illyrian culture as the root culture for both the Irish and the Serbs. But this culture also greatly influenced Old Rome and Greece which was evident from the amount of cultural characteristics and linguistic traces in both cultures which were in all the ancient texts attributed to the mysterious Pelasgians who even more mysteriously disappeared from the face of the earth together with their Illyrian and Celtic neighbours. These Pelasgians, Illyrians and Celts now turned out to be alive and well in the Irish, South and Western Slavs….This was getting really interesting.
But then I came across the story about Vinca metallurgical revolution which happened in the 4th millennium BC. At the same time when they were making lots of Copper and Bronze weapons, Vinca people were creating a first organized religion. When you have well-armed religious fanatics you can be sure that a religious war is not far behind. And that is exactly what seemed to have happened in the second half of the 4th millennium BC. Vinca culture suddenly disappeared from the Balkans, but Vinca artefacts started appearing all over Europe, Asia and North Africa. And all of a sudden all these great civilisations started appearing everywhere, all based on the same symbols, the wolf, the eagle and other birds, the snake, the bee, the bull, the double axe, the mother goddess earth, the father sky, the son sun and daughter moon, the bird people and wolf people. The Vincans went out of the Balkans and took over the world, wielding their metal spears, swords and axes and carrying their wolf totems before them. They also took with them their language whose traces can be now found in all the Indo European languages.
But they did not all leave. Some stayed at home and they later morphed into Illyrians. Those who went north eventually became Celts and Germans. Those who reached Britain and Ireland eventually became Gaels.
Later the descendants of the Vincans returned, in waves from all sides, bringing with them new cultural and linguistic characteristics which they acquired over the centuries while mixing with the indo European peoples they had conquered. These new cultural and linguistic layers were deposited on top of the old European strand of Vinca culture which was created from the mix of Vincans and the other old European cultures. Steppe people came from the east, Asia minor and Mesopotamians from the south east, North African people from the south, Atlantic people from the west. And the Vinca culture slowly disappeared.
The isolation of the Irish at the end of Europe, and the sheer number and military strength of the mountain people of the Balkans and the Central European mountains helped them to preserve this Vinca cultural and linguistic layer to this day, albeit covered with thick layers of Gaelic and Slavic and many other cultures and Languages.
Comparing these two languages I believe that I have now uncovered this culture and language of old Europe. It could not be better.
But this is not all.
I also believe that in this old language I have discovered a possibility to reconstruct the oldest language spoken in Europe, the language before the language. I believe that I have discovered how the first language was formed in Europe from natural sounds, and how this earliest human language was preserved and conserved in the Irish and Serbian languages and their base words.
To support my theory, I have accumulated a lot of material which I am translating into English. I am planning to make it available as soon as possible. The work is however in progress and I am writing this to invite everyone who might be interested to help me to continue this investigation as this is becoming too big and too important for just one man.
I hope this does not sound too mad or pretentious. You have to believe me that I am pinching myself every day, as it is hard to believe that anyone can be so lucky to stumble across something like this…
 
May 2013
333
ireland
#2
Ok first things first. I need to define what and who the "Serbs" are. It seems that “Serb” or probably originally just SRB originally meant a member of a Vincan military elite, almost like a religious military order. This name for a warrior was spread around the world with vincan invaders and could explain all the Sar, Ser, Sur, Sir, Sor, names, toponymes, place names that we find strewn from Britain to Mesopotamia.
Only much later in the old Vinca land, and in the adjoining central European lands between Balkans and Baltic, this became the name for tribes ruled by this warrior elite. Maybe this was the name that Vincans used to call themselves, and that is the reason it survived in the Balkan - Baltic area, but i can't prove that.

So lets see where the meaning of word Serb comes from:


Saor in Irish means free.
Sar in Irish is a suffix which means the best, grandest, highest, most respected
Bean in Irish means to strike, to cut which together means to fight.

bean

touch, Irish beanaim, beat, touch, appertain to, Old Irish benim, pulso, ferio, Breton bena, to cut, Middle Breton benaff, hit; *bina, root bin, bi (Old Irish ro bi, percussit, bithe, perculsus), from Indo-European bhi, bhei, hit; Church Slavonic bija, biti, strike; Old High German bîhal, axe; Greek @Gfitrós, log. Further is root bheid, split, English bite. Usually bean has been referred to Indo-European @ghen, @ghon, hit, slay; Greek @Gfen-, slay, @Gepefnon, slew, @Gfónos, slaughter, @Gqeínw, strike; Sanskrit han, hit; but @gh = Gaelic b is doubtful.

So Sar + bi, bin – The one who is the best in fighting, a solder

In Serbian we have verb bit, which means to strike. In Serbian if you want to make a noun out of a verb that ends in vowel, in masculine form you would ad "n". So Sar + b(h)i + n = The one who is the best at striking....

There is no etymology to be found for Serbian, Sarbian in any Slavic language and this has long been a hot topic of contention…So this is obviously pre Slavic word.
 
May 2013
333
ireland
#3
Let me continue with my story. I am actually presenting it in the same order it presented itself to me, so you can see how i arrived to my final conclusion. I have skipped the whole Slavic Viking, And Slavic Angles story. It is important but I just don't have time to translate all of it at the moment. If you know anyone who is particularly interested in that aspect of my investigation, i can try and translate some of it...

So back to Vinca connection.

Tabor Breg in Kingdom of Brega

In Serbia you can find Mountain Tara and river Tara, but also mountain taor which is how you pronounce Teamhair (tavor, taor (tabor)) the actual old name of Tara in Ireland. People who live in this part of Serbia call themselves "Ere" and there is even a male personal name Era.

In Serbian tabor is a military camp. Utaboriti se is to set up camp. Taborovati is to camp. Tavoriti is standing in one place, not moving. Tabor, Tavor, Taur, Tara....

I know that word tabor also exists in turkish with the same meaning (a military camp), but this word predates the Turks and I believe that it is a borrowing from Serbian (Irish, Vinca language). There is a mount Taur in Lycia, the tallest mountain range in Anatolia which predates the Turkish invasions of Asia Minor. There is also attested Celtic presence in Asia Minor many centuries before Turks arrived. Huge number of Balkan "Slavs", were settled in the eastern parts of Anatolia in the early medieval time by the Byzantine empire to man the military frontier. Later on, after the Turkish conquest, core of the military elite quickly became predominantly manned by the Balkan “Slavs”. Janissary (infantry) and Delije (Cavalry) were predominantly of Balkan "Slavic" Serbian origin. Cavalry was always the strongest force in the Serbian army. The superiority of the Serbian cavalry in the 12th to 15th century Europe was absolute. They were considered the best cavalry in Europe and European Hussars originate in the late 15th-century Serbian warriors that had left Ottoman Serbia, beginning in the 14th century.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_hussars]Polish hussars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

At the moment there are several million Turks with Serbian (Bosnian) descent living in Turkey. So tabor can well be a very old Serbian, Irish, Vinca word for a military camp, which came into Turkish as a borrowing. Another proof that word Tabor comes from central Europe is that it is found in the languages spoken in central European lands never conquered by Turks, like Czech and Slovak...If you look at what the world for military camp is in European languages, You will see that these languages use word Tabor: South Slavic, Romanian, Czech, Slovak, Ukrainian, . Russians use лагерь, Bulgarians лагер…All Germanic and Latin based languages use Camp, including Irish…

And by the way there is no clear etymology for tara or Teamhair in Gaelic....

In Serbian "Taraba" is a fence, a barrier in front of the house, and "Za-tarabiti" is to place behind barier, to fence off....There is a word "Tar" in Irish which means to pass, so taraba could be from "tar abhaile" which means to arrive home, where taraba would be the fence that surrounds home, which signifies that you have arrived. Place of arrival kind of corresponds to tabor. You arrive to Tabor.

I believe that this also supports the above etymology for Tara, Taor, Tabor:


The Hill of Tara lies about midway between the towns of Dunshaughlin and Navan in the gently rolling countryside of south central Meath. The monuments comprising the core of the Tara complex are scattered along a low ridge about 2km long, orientated roughly north - south, a little to the west of the main Dublin-Navan road. Unimposing from the east, which is the usual modern approach, the ground rises steadily to about 155m above sea-level before dropping away quite steeply to the west, presenting an impressive vista over the central plain of Ireland.

This aspect is implicit in one of the two etymologies of its Irish name, Teamhair, provided by the ninth-century text Sanas Chormaic, i.e. a height from which there is a fine view. An alternative, and possibly more accurate, etymology emphasises the liminal nature of Tara, suggesting that the name has something to do with twilight or darkness, perhaps a sacred space or the gates to the Otherworld. It is likely, nevertheless, that the sense of elevation at Tara, which is conferred by the surrounding panorama rather than by its actual height above sea-level, was a key factor in the choice of this place for ceremonial activity.
Tara: An Archaeological Survey - Discovery Programme

You set up tabor (military camp) on top of hills from which you can have a good view of the surrounding countryside...So in 9th century they still remembered (vaguely) the original meaning of the word. Now however we have this mumbo jumbo light dark crap which is "possibly more accurate".


It is also interesting that the hill of Tara Is in the area of Ireland which once belonged to the kingdom of Brega. In Serbian "Breg" means a small hill, and particularly man made hill. In Irish "breg" has no meaning, although i did find it translated in some places as "hill". So Breg Tabor was in the kingdom of Brega.

Here is an interesting poem from 10-12th century which talks about "tabor (Temair) breg":

Part 1 of The Metrical Dindshenchas

The poem starts:

Temair Breg, whence is it named? Declare O sages!
Then it goes on to explain:


Cathair Crofhind ('twas not amiss)
30] was its name under the Tuatha De Danand,
till there came Tea, never unjust,
the wife of Erimon lofty of mien.
Round her house was built a rampart
by Tea daughter of Lugaid;
35] she was buried beyond the wall without,
so that from her is Temair named.
The Seat of the Kings was its name:
the kingly line of the Milesians reigned in it:
five names accordingly were given it
40] from the time when it was Fordruim till it was Temair.
So Tuatha De Danan ruled this land. They gave the name to "tabor breg". Then Milesians came and conquered the area, and the meaning of the name was forgotten. According to the Irish chronicles, Tuatha De Danan came from the North East, from across the sea, from South Baltic. They spoke a language in which "tabor breg" had a meaning. Milesians came from south west, from across the sea, from Spain. They spoke Gaelic, the language in which "tabor breg" does not have meaning.

...The Tuatha Dé Danann were descended from Nemed...Nemed was the son of Agnoman of Scythia...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuatha_Dé_Danann
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemed

Milesians

Milesians are a people figuring in Irish mythology. The descendants of Míl Espáine (which is the Irish form of Latin Miles Hispaniae, "Soldier of Hispania"), they were the final inhabitants of Ireland invading the country from Iberia, and were believed to represent the Goidelic (or Gaelic) Celts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milesians_(Irish)

On the fifth page of the poem it says:

Mag Breg with numerous hills
Here is what is said about the kingdom of Brega:


Brega took its name from Mag Breg, the plain of Brega in modern County Meath, County Louth and County Dublin, Ireland
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_of_Brega]Kings of Brega - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Does Kingdom of Brega means the Kingdom of the hills, Tumuluses? There aren't too many tumuluses in Ireland. There are many in the Balkans. Obviously the tumulus culture came from the Balkans to Ireland.


[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumulus]Tumulus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

A tumulus can be found close to the Grianán of Aileach in County Donegal. It has been suggested by historians such as George Petrie, who surveyed the site in the early 19th century, that the tumulus may predate the ring fort of Aileach by many centuries possibly to the neolithic age. Surrounding stones were laid horizontally, and converged towards the centre. the mound had been excavated in Petrie’s time, but nothing explaining its meaning was discovered. It was subsequently destroyed, but its former position is marked by a heap of broken stones. Similar mounds can be found at The Hill of Tara and there are several prominent tumuli at Brú na Bóinne in County Meath.
Brú na Bóinne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
May 2013
333
ireland
#4
The point in comparing Irish and Serbs is that they are far apart in every way, and should not have any overlapping cultural and linguistic characteristics. But i have found hundreds of words, names, grammatical constructs, sayings, customs, beliefs, legends which are the same or are complementing each other. This is only possible if at some, very distant time these now unrelated people were one and the same. I am betting on the I haplogroup, And particularly on I2a as being the carriers of that culture. So for me Vinca = Illyria = Central Europan Celts = Lusatian culture = Norse Germanic culture = Old Irish culture = Central European western and south Slavic cultures = I2a. But also all the other I haplogroups as well.

For many years--and despite enormous sums spent on WTYs etc.--the I2a-Dinaric clade common in Central-Eastern Europe has been very resistant to SNP definition and partition. Not a single SNP was found to split the clade, and the only SNP to define the clade was L147, which occurs in multiple other haplogroups and hence is not sufficiently "unique" for the FTDNA haplotree.

But finally, Geno 2.0 results have identified two SNPs that split Dinaric, and three more that define it. All five are now available for order from FTDNA.

CTS10228 and CTS5966 were ancestral in one south-central Polish Dinaric, but derived in about seven other Dinarics across Central-Eastern Europe.

CTS10936, CTS11768, and CTS4002 were derived in all eight Dinarics, but ancestral in the nearest related clade (Disles).

The one Dinaric that tested negative for CTS10228 and CTS5966 has ordered Y-DNA67, but no marker results have arrived yet.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthr...s-that-define-and-split-the-I2a-Dinaric-clade

So there is a definite old link between Balkan I2a and Irish and British I2a. R1b (gaelic) came much later (2500 bc) from Spain and southern France. But they only subdued the whole of Ireland in the early medieval time, so this is why this old culture survived for so long...
 
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May 2013
333
ireland
#5
Some people are wandering how could there be a link between Vinca (pre-Indo-Europeans) 5300-3500 BC and Celtic people (Indo-Europeans) proto-proper 1800-700 BC. I was one of those people myself.

But connection does exists. Vinca cultural and economic expansion probably started before 3500 bc. Their full scale invasion of the rest of the world started some time after 3500 bc. They reached among other places Greece, Crete, Asia Minor and eventually Egypt. There in Egypt they started great Egyptian civilization which later bore Mynoan civilization which later bore Mycenaean civilization which then came back home and started the proto Celto Illyrian civilization.
They also went east and started Mesopotamian civilizatons, Indian civilization...The Indo Europeans who invaded Europe were just coming back home.


What is important to understand about these Vinca guys, is that they were not a nation, but a military oligarchy, which would impose itself on other people, force their beliefs and culture on them and form something of a mix of local and Vincan culture. They were small in number, but technologically superior and completely bloody minded. So they would conquer a tribe and couple of centuries later effectively disappear in the sea of their subjects. These tribes, now equipped with new weapons and technology, would have no problem attacking other Vinca conquered tribes, and even Vinca homeland itself...
I actually can prove direct religious link from Vinca (3500 bc) to Delphi (800 bc). This will make a lot of things clearer...If there is a religious and cultural and linguistic continuity between Vinca and Serbs and Irish of today, then there is also a link between Vinca and "the celts"...
 
May 2013
333
ireland
#6
Who are the Irish?

There is something very interesting about the Irish language. You have a lot of words which are pronounced and sometimes even spelled the same, and which have completely different unrelated meanings. This shows that Irish is a composite language. No language, which is not composite, has that characteristic. You have a lot of that in English and everyone knows that this is because English is a composite language. I believe that the same is the case with Irish. Believe or not, I bought the biggest Irish English dictionary I could find, and I read it cover to cover (mad I know). And you have this over and over again. But what you also have is lots of old words which were Gaelicised. You can see this if you compare them with the old Irish versions. Time after time you see the same pattern, where the original word was changed to confirm with the Gaelic language structure. And the last thing that I noticed is that there are many base terms, which should really be defined with one word, but which have multiple words in Irish. Again this is the sign of a composite language.

This is completely in tune with the archaeological evidence, Irish historical records and genetic data.

I read a very good book recently called "The Origins of the Irish" by J. P. Mallory.

James Patrick Mallory is an Irish-American archaeologist and Indo-Europeanist. Mallory is an emeritus professor at Queen's University, Belfast, a member of the Royal Irish Academy and the editor of the Journal of Indo-European Studies and Emania: Bulletin of the Navan Research Group (Belfast).

What does he have to say about who today's Irish are?

Basically no one knows. But what we do know is that there was definitely significant influx from both western Mediterranean and from south Baltic…

There seemed to have been two Irelands:

First one was Ireland of P(F)omorians, Tuatha de Danaan, Fir bolg, Ango Saxons, Pruteni, Vikings which was influenced from south Baltic region.
Second one was the Ireland of Gaelic, Iverni, Milesians, Mil Espain, which was influenced from western Mediterranean region.

I don’t know who the original inhabitants of Ireland were, but I know that for at least last 4500 years, there has been continuous transfer of people, cultures and languages from these two centres into Ireland. Ireland was never one country and one culture, and it still isn’t. There is a drastic difference between south west (Mediterranean) and north east (South Baltic) influenced part of Ireland. There is a drastic difference in cultures in these two parts of Ireland, starting from two different types of megalithic structures which belong to either western Mediterranean or Central European Southern Baltic types.

The Iberians were according to the Irish chronicles the last to invade Ireland. They came and they burned and they destroyed and they plunged Ireland into a dark age. Do we have any evidence if this actually happen and when? We do. In "The Origins of the Irish" J. P. Mallory says that there is a sudden change in archaeological evidence which coincides with the beginning of the Iron Age in Ireland. It coincides with a massive depopulation of Ireland and switch from agriculture to flock herding. It also coincides with massive fortification and building of huge number of ring forts. So Gaels came and brought with them the Iron Age with all its beauties. It took Ireland couple of hundred years to recover.

The fact that the Gaels were at war with the Tuatha, Fomorians and the other central European people is evident from the Irish annals, which were by the way all written by the victors of this great struggle, the Gaels. In these histories the old people (Tuatha, Fomorians, Pruteni) were portrayed as enemies, evil, devious, magicians who should not be trusted, powerful but corrupt and bad. However the kings of Tuatha, Fomorians, Pruteni are credited with bringing all the arts and crafts to Ireland, and are frequently found imbedded in genealogies of the main Gaelic ruling families. Is this an attempt of the invaders to legitimise themselves by claiming relation to the powerful and famous rulers of old? Or was there a genuine intermarrying between these two peoples? Probably both.

The relationship between the Gaels and for instance the Tuatha is also evident from the Irish language:

Tuata - Layman
Tuath - people, tribe, laity
Tuath - lay, rural
Tuath - left, sinister, perverse, evil, malign
Tuathack - king, lord, chieftain
Tutahal - directed against the sun, wrong
Tuathalach - towards left, sinister, awkward, slovenly

Surely if Tuatha were Gaels, Tuath would not have such bad connotations in today's Gaelic Irish language?


The cultural merging of these two Irelands probably started quite early. Both communities were tribal, so there was no real sense of us against them. They formed and dissolved tribal alliances which fought each other and probably consisted of clans from both peoples. Maybe not. But by the fact that they lived side by side they must have communicated, traded, intermarried (stole each other’s wives) which all contributed to language mixing. The all-out war between these two sides only started with arrival of Christianity. They supported the south of Ireland, which turned out be mostly Gaelic, Milesian, Mil Espain side, and they eventually took over most of Ireland and forced their culture and language on everyone else apart from the eastern part of Ireland where thanks to continuous migration from south Baltic we have a continuation of this non Gaelic culture which morphed into Viking and later into Anglo Irish culture.

George Eogan is an Irish Archaeologist with particular interest in the Neolithic and Late Bronze Ages. A first degree at University College Dublin was followed by a doctoral thesis on Irish Late Bronze Age swords at Trinity College Dublin under Frank Mitchell. In the 1950's he worked with P.J. Hartnett on the Neolithic passage tomb at Fourknocks, and with Sean O Riordain at the Mound of the Hostages on the Hill of Tara. He was the Director of the Knowth Research Project and excavated at Knowth for more than 40 years as part of his investigation of the Passage Tomb builders in Ireland and Western Europe. Professor Eogan is a native of Nobber, Co. Meath in Ireland and has taught and lectured extensively on Irish archaeology.

Recently he gave this interview to the Irish Times newspaper, after spending his whole life studying the old kingdom of Brega and Bru na Boinne:

Eoin Butler's Q&A - Breaking News | Irish & International Headlines | The Irish Times - Sat, Jun 16, 2012

Here is one excerpt:

How has the site weathered the past five millennia? Were subsequent inhabitants of the area respectful of it? Did they build over it?
That’s a very interesting question. In fact, between the seventh and 12th centuries AD, the mound at Knowth was the royal residence of the kings of Northern Brega, which occupied roughly the northern half of the modern county of Meath.
When you went down there in 1962, were you the first person to enter the tomb in 5,500 years or had previous generations pottered around in there?
The kings of Northern Brega transformed the site into a protected settlement by digging two ditches. When they were digging, they discovered the entrance to the passage. Some people went in and scratched their names on the stones.
What kind of names did people have in the seventh century?
They weren’t like our names today. One name was Snedta, who was a male individual, we think.
If he was carving his name all over the place, it was definitely a man.
Yes, most likely. The other was Teistennach. They would both have been members of the Northern Brega kingdom.
The point is, that we don’t know who the people were who lived in Brega kingdom in the period 7 - 12 century AD. We know they were different from today’s Irish and had strange names and probably even spoke a non-Gaelic language, but we just don’t know.

If potentially non-Gaelic people had their kingdoms in medieval Ireland, then it is almost certain that they did control even bigger portions of Ireland in more distant past. This is evident from another very good book which I read recently. The book is called “Iverni: A Prehistory of Cork”.

The book is written by Professor William O'Brien. Professor William O'Brien is a graduate of University College Cork where he completed doctoral research in 1987 on the subject of prehistoric copper mining. Prior to his appointment to the Cork chair in 2006, he lectured for 16 years in the Department of Archaeology, NUI Galway. His research interests include the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age in Ireland, early mining and metallurgy in Atlantic Europe, upland archaeology, the study of hillforts and all aspects of monumentality in the later prehistoric period. He has a particular interest in the prehistory of south-west Ireland, where he has conducted numerous research excavations. He has published widely on these topics, including books on his investigation of the Mount Gabriel mines, on wedge tomb landscapes, on his discovery of the Beaker copper mine at Ross Island, Co. Kerry, on early settlement landscapes and upland farming in the Beara Peninsula, and more recently the first general study of the prehistory of the Cork region.

In his book he concludes that there was a definite border and a division between the Ivernian civilization and the rest of Ireland. This border is marked by disappearance of west Mediterranean type megaliths and appearance of Central European type megaliths. In my opinion this pretty much corresponds to the division between the Gaelic and non-Gaelic Ireland. So what was the effect of this cultural division?

I believe that it is this cultural division of Ireland that leads to the situation where not all of the Irish language conforms to the Irish grammar. For instance Irish grammar says that when making compound words, you should always put adjectives after nouns. However there are lots of names in Ireland that do not confirm to that. Place names such as Dubh Linn ("black pool" = Dublin) and Leixlip ("salmon leap") were attributed to the Norse settlers who learned Irish had trouble with putting adjectives after nouns, so they often put them before the noun. This is exactly what happens when you force the new language on subjected population. They pick up the words but keep their own grammar. But this “non Gaelic Irish” language is present in all the old Irish texts, which shows that it predates the Norse, or more precisely the Dano-Slavs, as there were no Norse settlers in the Pale of Ireland only south Baltic ones. For instance Táin Bó Cúailnge, is filled with epithets like finnbennach "white-horned", dóeltenga "beetle-tongued", echbél "horse-lipped", rúadruca "red-blushing", and the like. I know that it wasn't written down until after the Vikings invaded but (a) the original core is thought to be much older and (b) there's precious little else in the work that could be ascribed to Norse influence. Moreover, we find this sort of composition in the earliest attestations of every Indo-European language, even if it later becomes obsolete. (Latin is an excellent example of this.) So I think you might be able to say that these sorts of compounds increased in areas of Norse influence (that's certainly the case in the North of France, for instance), but it's definitely an exaggeration to say that they originate with the Northmen. I however suspect that this could have something to do with the Central and North European influence which arrived to Ireland via south Baltic with of P(F)omorians, Tuatha de Danaan, Fir bolg, Ango Saxons, Pruteni, Vikings .

It seems that these south Baltic people have been living in Ireland and Scotland from at least 4th century AD (the earliest "Viking" type houses were dated from that period, and the latest finds on the crannog in ulster are pushing this to the 2nd century ad). The artefacts and houses are of distinct south Baltic type and not the Norse type. But this influx of central European culture is much older and dates to at least 2500 bc, if we judge by the amber beads discovered in north Cork. And even older if we judge it by the age of central European type stone age structures which first appeared in Central Europe, then in the Baltic and then in Ireland.

For instance, in Ireland you have names like RuaRi which uses word Rua for Red which is very close to Germano Slavic rud, rus and rua and not gaelic derg. In this name you also have adjective before the noun. This might be strange if you believe that all Irish were Gaels. But now that we know that they were not, it becomes something that you would expect to find.
Interestingly enough most toponymes and hydronymes of Celtic origin in central Europe have adjective before the noun. Here are some examples:

Gaelic word for “big” is Mór. (Pronounced as the English word more)
Gaelic word for “river” is Abhainn . (Pronounced “awon” similar to the English word award). Proto celtic word is awa.

In central Europe there are numerous rivers called Morava.

Morava = mor + ava = Mór Abhainn = Mor Awa= big river

Morava is the biggest river in Serbia and also in Czech republic. These rivers gave the name to the territory upper and lower Moravia .

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Morava]Great Morava - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morava_(river)

Today in eastern Serbia Vlasi (Vlahi) say “mare” for big. Celts called themselves “Valahi”…

In Ireland there is a river named The Avonmore River (Irish: Abhainn Mór, meaning "big river") which is the same as Mor Ava just using Gaelic grammar.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Avonmore]River Avonmore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


Belgrade was in the distant past called Singi Dun. In Ireland most town names have word “dun” at the beginning like dun laoghaire.

All of this is very interesting, and forces us, I believe, to make a decision who is a Celt and who is a Gael. I believe from everything I have discovered so far that Gaels were not Celts and that Gaelic language is not a Celtic language. I believe that today’s Irish language has a lot of central European Celtic characteristics, but that they did not come from Gaelic, but from the languages of the Tuatha, Fomorians, Pruteni. This is why we have the same words and grammar in continental Europe, but only the words in Ireland.
So who are today the real carriers of Celtic language and Culture: Atlantic Bretons, Germanic and West Slavic nations of central Europe, or Gaelic people in Britain? I believe that it is a tossup…
 
May 2013
333
ireland
#7
While we are here in the vicinity of Belgrade or Singi Dun, i will here repeat what i wrote on another thread here few years ago. At that time i only had a "strong feeling" that there is a link between the Irish and the Serbs.

Irish expression “tar aish” or “tareis” means “after” or “beyond” as in these two sentences:


Ta se deich noimead tar eis a naoi
PRONOUNCED: Taw shay deh no/made tar aish a knee
MEANING: It is ten minutes after nine


Slainte go saol agat,
Bean ar do mhian agat.
Leanbh gach blian agat,
is solas na bhflaitheas tareis antsail seo agat.

roughly pronounced:
Slancha ga sheil agat
Ban ir da vian agat
Toluv gan kis agat
Lanov gach blean agat
Iss solas na vlahas taraish antail sha agat.

"Health for life to you,
A wife of your choice to you,
Land without rent to you,
A child every year to you,
And the light of heaven after this world for you."
Near Belgrade there are two villages, Železnik and Vranic, which both have parts called “taraiš” pronounced “taraish” situated after or beyond the village boundaries. These villages are long and narrow situated on top of wavy hills. Zeleznik in Serbian means “iron town” or “iron place” or “iron works” or “smelting plant”. In medieval chronicles the place is described as once being the major iron and silver processing center. Roman sarcophagus belonging to a Decurion from second century was found near the village. This means that Zeleznik was important enough to have a military garrison stationed in it, probably because it was still an metallurgical center in Roman time. Between Zeleznik and Vranic, on another hill which runs parallel to the other two is a village of Sremcica where the iron ore was mined. Old iron mines were discovered there in the middle of the 20th century...


So next to Singi Dun (20 km) there is an important Iron production area, where people call the area beyond the village land taraish -Tar Eis (beyond), and call the village boundary taraba which could be from "tar abhaile" which means to arrive home and here is what those people call their homes:

Kuća - Kutja = house

This word has no etymology in Slavic languages. There is a proposed etymology stemming from word "Kut" which means angle. In Serbian there is a word Kutija which mean angular container, so Kutja could be angular house. And i agree that the first part of the word kutja comes from kut. But i believe that the ending tja comes from Irish word for a house "teach" pronounced "tjak". So kutja becomes kut tjak - angular rectangular house, as opposed to oval house. Is there any evidence that a word "tjak" or "tja" was or is used in the Balkans for a house? There is. In Dalmatia they still say "idem ća" - "idem tja" = i am going home, i am going away. In Serbian there is a word "čatrlja" which means small house made of daub and wattle.
What is also interesting is that in Serbian a word "dom", which is a word for home also has an interesting etymology. In Serbian it can be broken like this:

dom = do + m = do + me = do + mene = to me, what belongs to me, what is with me, next to me = my things = home.

Let's have a look at Irish:

diom (dom)= to, at
mo = me
diom + mo = diommo = diomo = to me, at me, what belongs to me, what surrounds me

I don't believe that this just a coincidence, because it goes on and on and on like this....More to come

ps: Here is a very interesting investigation into original round houses. They look so much like old beehives my grand father used to have...Same principal building technique.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056782155
 
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May 2013
333
ireland
#8
One question is always asked when you present people with a possible long term culture continuity in a place where there is evidence of violent cultural endings, and replacements.

What i propose is that there was a continuation as well as succession going on. For instance just because my son has a Serbian father, this doesn't mean he is not Irish as well, as his mother is Irish. Women and cattle were what the "Indo Europeans" always kept, after destroying everything else and killing the men. Women bring up kids, and thus pass on the culture and the language. In "The Origins of the Irish", J. P. Mallory talks about these bands of priests, smiths and warriors which roamed the world in the early copper and bronze age, looking for new lands to take. No women were part of those invasions, they were taken from the conquered people. This is one custom that survived all the way to today through the custom of wife kidnapping and so called "wolf weddings" in the Balkans...

Also there is no way that without cultural continuity we would have both copper, bronze and iron being invented and first industrially produced in the exactly the same spot, in today's Serbia, in the old Vinca land. Metallurgy is such a complex craft that it requires in dept knowledge of many related skills and sciences. For this to be passed on without written teaching material, you need long term tutoring. For this you need continuity. I accept as a possibility that maybe one of early Vinca colonies in the north east have formed the "Indo Europens" (what ever this is, because it is still just a term hotly debated and disputed). I did say that what i found points to them being organized into tribes, wolf packs, knightly orders, fiana, what ever you want to call it. So they went out and formed new tribes. I can accept that one of those tribes then came back to old Vinca land, conquered it and continued where Vinca stopped. But this is still continuity.
 
May 2013
333
ireland
#9
The “Garmans” are coming

Once upon a time, the whole of north-western Europe was crisscrossed with a complex network of wooden roads. These roads were needed in order to cross the boggy and soggy lands of northern Europe, and became a necessity when wheeled carts were invented and introduced into the north of Europe.

The first routes in Ireland were prehistoric trackways, some of which were later developed into roads suited for wheeled vehicles. Many of Ireland's minor roads “may well have had their origin in pre-existing paths and trackways aligned in direct response to the physical environment.” Traces of these evolved roads which developed over very long periods, frequently from tracks of the prehistoric period, are still evident. The routes of such roads usually followed the natural landscape, following the tops of ridges and crossing rivers and streams at fording points.[1]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_roads_in_Ireland]History of roads in Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

There is almost no evidence that large roads were constructed in Ireland during the Stone Age. However, a very large oval henge enclosure, thought to date from c. 2500 BC (the Neolithic period) may possibly have had an ancient roadway associated with it. The henge was discovered at the Hill of Tara archaeological complex in geophysical surveys carried out between 1999 and 2001. It is unlikely that any roadway from this period would have been used as a transport route.[2][3] Excavations carried out at Edercloon, Co. Longford in advance of road construction discovered a dense "network of wooden trackways and platforms, which were constructed from the Neolithic (c. 4000-c. 2200BC) to the early medieval period (c. AD 400-790)."[4]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_roads_in_Ireland]History of roads in Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

So the earliest wooden track way in Ireland was discovered next to a henge in Brega area, near Tabor breg. Henge is a central European type megalithic structure. They originate in central Europe in the same area which later became the Celtic heartland.

Prague - Czech archaeologists have uncovered four prehistoric rondel enclosures, two of which are the largest in Europe, within an unprecedented extensive research accompanying the construction of a motorway bypass of Kolin, central Bohemia, chief researcher Radka Sumberova told CTK today.

After examining 40 hectares on land, the experts gathered hundreds of thousands of finds. The most important ones include the four rondel enclosures. The enclosures, of a circle or oval shape and usually of 50 to 200 metres in diameter, appeared in Europe in the Neolithic period. Their inner space was not inhabited. Experts believe they might have served for cult, military or trade purposes. Over 100 rondel enclosures have been uncovered in Europe to date, including several in the Czech Republic.

Two of the enclosures that archaeologists have uncovered near Kolin are 214 and 230 meters in diameter. The former was surrounded by four ditches, the biggest being 4.5m deep and 14m long, Sumberova said. The other two enclosures uncovered within the Kolin research in the past two years are 80 and 75 meters in diameter.

Besides Neolithic finds, the experts uncovered a number of valuable remains of settlements from the Paleolithic period, from the Bronze and Iron Ages, from the Roman era and the early Middle Ages, Sumberova said.

Experts will further examine all finds.
Article: Czech archaeologists uncover Europe's largest rondel enclosures. | AccessMyLibrary - Promoting library advocacy

What are rondel enclosures?

A number of approximately 120–150 Neolithic earthworks enclosures are known in Central Europe. They are called Kreisgrabenanlagen("circular ditched enclosures") in German, or alternatively as roundels (or "rondels"; German Rondelle; sometimes also "rondeloid", since many are not even approximately circular). They are mostly confined to the Elbe and Danube basins, in modern-day Germany,Austria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, as well as the adjecent parts of Hungary and Poland, in a stretch of Central European land some 800 km (500 mi) across.[2] They date to the first half of the 5th millennium BC; they are associated with the late Linear Pottery culture and its local successors, the Stroke-ornamented ware (Middle Danubian) and Lengyel (Moravian Painted Ware) cultures. The best known and oldest of these Circular Enclosures is the Goseck circle, constructed c. 4900 BC.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rondel_enclosure]Neolithic circular enclosures in Central Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

So these henges, rondel enclosures originate in central Europe, in middle Danube area (Danube again) and Morava area (Morava again). They are a lot more common in Central Europe and predate the henges found in the British Isles. This means that the culture that built these megaliths came from Central Europe via Baltic to British Isles.

Here is an example of one of those Central European henges:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goseck_circle]Goseck circle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Here is a link to the page about English henges:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henge]Henge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

And here is an example from Ireland:

Woodhenge discovered on Hill of Tara, Ireland

These megalithic structures are linked to Stroke-ornamented ware (Middle Danubian) culture. This culture is a continuation of the Linear pottery culture.

Stroke-ornamented ware culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_Pottery_culture]Linear Pottery culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

This Linear pottery culture is through a particular type of bread ovens and houses directly linked to the West Slavic cultures of central Europe of the medieval time:

These so called bread ovens are known from a number of sites in central Europe that are dated from the 7th-12th centuries (Skružny 1963, 1980 ; Vignatiová 1992). A find of this type is usually represented by a hole sunk into a loess soil with the highest vaulting of 40-60 cm, red-burnt walls of 5-10 cm and a grey-burnt bottom, sometimes stone-lined.

The bottom ground plan is usually of renal, semi-circular up to round shape, east-west oriented.

From later periods (13 th century) it is documented that slightly modified ovens with an underground heating duct can serve for food-smoking (Skružny 1980). Archaeological finds of bread ovens are usually excavated on the margin of a settled area outside of the houses (Skružny, Vignatiová 1992, p. 90) or they are sunk into the wall of a dwelling (e.g. Breclav-Pohansko : Vignatiová 1992, fig. 3). The ovens outside the dwellings and the site area are known from Neolithic sites in Slovakia : in Pác near Trnava (Kolník 1977) or in Horné Lefantovce (Bánesz 1962). These finds were recently enriched by a new exceptional site where ovens from 11 th-12 th century were excavated in the vicinity (ca. 150 m) of the similar ones from the Late Stone Age (6 th millenium B.C.) belonging to the Linear-Pottery culture people. These ovens were revealed in Borovce, distr. of Piest’any, Slovakia, and the finds have not been published yet. The particular situation of Borovce has offered a chance to compare these finds, similar in types but different in history as well as in culture.
The stone and Middle Age ovens in Loess sites of Slovakia. Influences on their quality for food preparation

This again shows cultural continuity in central Europe from the earliest pre Indo European times to today.

Now that we know who invented henges and wooden track ways, let’s get back to the wooden roads:

Wheeled vehicles with solid wooden disc-wheels were introduced into northern Europe around 2000 BC. An example of a disc-wheel, from the Netherlands, was found next to a wooden trackway: "it appears from this evidence that the introduction of disc-wheeled carts into…northern Europe required the invention of roadbuilding about 2000 B.C."[5] An Early Bronze Age trackway, from shortly after 2000 BC, was found at Ballykillen Bog, near Edenderry, Co. Offaly in the 19th century. It may have been designed to carry disc-wheeled vehicles.[5] A one kilometre (0.6 mile) section of a wooden trackway, three feet (approx. 1 metre) wide, was surveyed at Corlona Bog inCo. Leitrim in the 1950s. The trackway was dated to approximately 1500 BC but its narrow width makes it unlikely that it was used by wheeled vehicles.[5] Similar wooden trackways and roads are known from all over Ireland from the Late Bronze Age. One example from Ballyalbanagh, Co. Antrim was seven feet (2 metres) wide and made from oak beams and planks: "its width suggests provision for cart or wagon transport."[5]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_roads_in_Ireland]History of roads in Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corlea_Trackway]Corlea Trackway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_trackway]Timber trackway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

The best examples of these track ways in Europe are in the south Baltic and in east Ireland. The way they were constructed is so different and superior to the rest of the roads found, that archaeologists have long “suspected” that they could have only been built by the same people. But because history says that there has been no migration from south Baltic to Ireland at the time these roads were built, the possibility that they might have been built by the same people was discarded.

Now if we disregard the official history (again), we can plainly see that these roads were built in Ireland by the immigrants from south Baltic. Not just by the fact that they used the same technique to build them, but by the fact that both were built in the area populated by the people with the same name: Cauci (Chauci). Who are these Cauci (Chauci)?


The Cauci (Καῦκοι) were a people of early Ireland, uniquely documented in Ptolemy's 2nd-century Geography, which locates them roughly in the region of modern County Dublin and County Wicklow.[1]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauci]Cauci - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

The Chauci (German: Chauken, and identical or similar in other regional modern languages) were an ancient Germanic tribe living in the low-lying region between the Rivers Ems and Elbe, on both sides of the Weser and ranging as far inland as the upper Weser. Along the coast they lived on artificial hills called terpen, built high enough to remain dry during the highest tide. A dense population of Chauci lived further inland, and they are presumed to have lived in a manner similar to the lives of the other Germanic peoples of the region.
Their ultimate origins are not well understood. In the Germanic pre-Migration Period (i.e., before c. 300 AD) the Chauci and the relatedFrisians, Saxons, and Angles inhabited the Continental European coast from the Zuyder Zee to south Jutland.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauci]Chauci - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

So this is why we can’t have these road builder with the same name be the same people. Because that would mean that Germanic tribes inhabited East Ireland in the 2. Century. What would that do to the story of “Celtic Ireland”?
But that is surely a coincidence. Maybe they just have similar names and are completely different people? Let’s see how far we can stretch this coincidence:

If you look at Ptolemy’s map of Ireland, you see that south from Cauci, you find these tribes: Menapii, Coriodni, Brigantes, Vodiae.

Do we find Menapii anywhere else? We do, right next and below the Chauci in the Rhine region.

The Menapii were a Belgic tribe of northern Gaul in pre-Roman and Roman times. Their territory according to Strabo,Caesar and Ptolemy stretched from the mouth of the Rhine in the north, and southwards along the west of the Schelde.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menapii]Menapii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Now interestingly enough they are a “belgic” tribe. So we have a Belbic and Germanic people living in two places next to each other. This opens a big question (again as I am not the first to open it) :
Was there a difference between Belgic (Celtic) tribes and Germanic tribes, or are the Germans just Celts that Romans did not conquer?
In Ireland, just under the Manapii tribe you find Coriondi, who we also find in England and according to names study probably in Gaul as well, and I say probably next to Menapii.

The Coriondi (Κοριονδοί) were a people of early Ireland, referred to in Ptolemy's 2nd century Geography as living in southern Leinster.[1]MacNeill identifies a later Irish group, the Coraind, in the Boyne valley, who may be the same people.[2] Other possibly related names include the Corcu Cuirnd,[2] Cuirennrige and Dál Cuirind in early medieval Ireland, and in Britain, the Corionototae, known from an inscription inHexham, Northumberland, and Corinion, the Brythonic name for Cirencester, Gloucestershire.[1] The element *corio- also occurs in Gaulish personal and tribal names, usually taken to mean an army or troop of warriors [3]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriondi]Coriondi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Under Coriondi we find Brigantes, who are also found in England, and in the Alps.

The Brigantes were a Celtic tribe who in pre-Roman times controlled the largest section of what would become Northern England, and a significant part of the Midlands. Their kingdom is sometimes called Brigantia, and it was centred in what was later known as Yorkshire. Ptolemy lists the Brigantes also as a tribe in Ireland, where they could be found around Wexford,Kilkenny and Waterford[1] while another probably Celtic tribe named Brigantii is mentioned by Strabo as a sub-tribe of theVindelici in the region of the Alps.[2]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigantes]Brigantes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Under Brigantes we find Vodiae or Vodii or Udiae:

http://books.google.ie/books?id=YQQ-...=Vodii&f=false

What we see is that we have the same Celto-Belgo-Germanic people settling one next to the other in:
1. South Baltic area, the same areas from which Ango-Saxons, and later Dano-Slavic Vikings, would later invade England.
2. North England, the same area that Ango-Saxons, and later Dano-Slavic Vikings, would later invade and settle in England
3. East Ireland, the same area Dano-Slavic Vikings, would later invade and settle in Ireland.

But there are not supposed to have been any Germanic or Ango-Saxon tribes in Ireland. Yet the territory of county Wexford, settled by Menapii is in Gaelic called: “Loch Garman”.

Here is what the Irish have to say about the name Loch Garman.

Wexford lies on the south side of Wexford Harbour, the estuary of the River Slaney. According to a local legend, the town got its Irish name, Loch Garman, from a young man named Garman Garbh who was drowned on the mudflats at the mouth of the River Slaney by flood waters released by an enchantress. The resulting loch or lough was thus named, Loch Garman.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wexford]Wexford - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

However it is a lot more plausible that the Gaels called the teritory by the name of its inhabitants, the Lock of Garmans (Germans). 19th century English historians thought so.

Ptolemy calls Wexford town by its real name Menppia, the town of Menpii.

Quite interesting are the Vodii as well. In modern Gaelic Irish the word for water is “uisce” pronounced “ishka”. However I believe that once there was another word for water, which has central European origin: “bwo” or “bwa” or “bwoa”. This word is the route of the word for water (English), wasser (Serman), and (Voda) Slavic. I believe that it is hidden in the following word:

bá (bvao) – Bay, great expense of water, flooding, drowning, immersion, quenching of thirst

The area inhabited by the Vodii, whose name in Serbian would mean water people, is today called Waterford.

There is also in Irish annals a story about an Irish prince of Leinster was exiled to Continental Europe and, befriending the foreign king, he returned with an army of "long spears" which, in Gaelic, was at the origin of the province name of Leinster.

Early Irish historical traditions credited the founding of the Laigin to the legendary High King Labraid Loingsech. His grandfather,Lóegaire Lorc, had been overthrown by his own brother, Cobthach Cóel Breg, and Labraid forced into exile. After a period of military service on the continent, Labraid returned to Ireland at the head of an army, known as Laigin after the broad blue-grey iron spearheads (láigne) they carried. The Lebor Gabála Érenn dates Labraid's accession to 300 BC.[3][4][5] Modern historians suggest, on the basis of these traditions and related placenames, that the Laigin were a group of invaders from Gaul or Britain, who arrived no later than the 6th century BC, and were later incorporated into the medieval genealogical scheme which made all the ruling groups of early Ireland descend from Míl Espáine. Placenames also suggest they once had a presence in north Munster and in Connacht.[6]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laigin]Laigin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Now what is the name for a spear in in old Germanic languages? The word for spear in Germanic languages is “gar”. Which would mean that Garman is a Gar man which means a Spear man. So back to Lock Garman again, and this time in the country of the spear men we have a town of the spear men.

gar: From Middle English gar, gare, gere, gore, from Old English gār (“spear, dart, javelin, shaft, arrow, weapon, arms”), from Proto-Germanic *gaizaz (“spear, pike, javelin”), from Proto-Indo-European *ǵʰayso- (“pointed stick, spear”), from Proto-Indo-European *ǵʰey- (“to drive, move, fling”). Cognate with West Frisian gear, Dutch geer (“pointed weapon, spear”), German Ger (“spear”), Norwegian geir (“spear”), Icelandic geir (“spear”). Related to gore.
Old Irish has gae "spear"
gar - Wiktionary

Which leads me to an inevitable question: Does German actually just mean a Spearman? And are Germanic tribes just tribes of people armed with Gars, Spears???

But we have completely forgotten the wooden roads.

According to an entry in the Annals of the Four Masters for AD 123, there were five principal highways (Irish: slighe) leading to Tara (Irish: Teamhair) in Early Medieval Ireland. The entry in the Annals claims that these routes were 'discovered' at the birth of Conn of the Hundred Battles:
The night of Conn's birth were discovered five principal roads leading to Teamhair, which were never observed till then. These are their names: Slighe Asail, Slighe Midhluachra, Slighe Cualann, Slighe Mhór, Slighe Dala. Slighe Mhór is that called Eiscir Riada, i.e. the division line of Ireland into two parts, between Conn and Eoghan Mór.[9]
In reality, "the ancient road system (such as it was - there cannot have been a developed national system) fanned out not from Tara but from Dublin.".[7]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_roads_in_Ireland]History of roads in Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

So the system of wooden roads was leading from and to Dublin, the centre of the Spear people land and also the centre of Cauci land.

Wheeled vehicles with solid wooden disc-wheels were introduced into northern Europe around 2000 BC. An example of a disc-wheel, from the Netherlands, was found next to a wooden trackway: "it appears from this evidence that the introduction of disc-wheeled carts into…northern Europe required the invention of roadbuilding about 2000 B.C."[5] An Early Bronze Age trackway, from shortly after 2000 BC, was found at Ballykillen Bog, near Edenderry, Co. Offaly in the 19th century. It may have been designed to carry disc-wheeled vehicles.[5]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_roads_in_Ireland]History of roads in Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

So these wooden roads are specifically built for disc wheeled cart traffic.

In Ireland these roads are called “An Tochar" pronounce “tokar”. There is a village in the Wicklow mountains called Roundwood. Its Irish name is Tochar.

Roundwood | Wicklow County Tourism

In Serbian there is a word “toka”, which means something disk like. There is also a verb “tokariti”, which means working material by spinning it and applying force from the side, which produces round, disc objects, like round wooden beams used for making disk cart wheels for which “tochar” roads were made. Was the name for these disc wheels “toka”? And does “tochar” mean a road for disc wheeled carts?
 
May 2013
333
ireland
#10
The Origin of Anglo – Saxon race

In the 1906 book entitled “Origin of Anglo – Saxon race” Thomas William Shore, author of 'a history of Hampshire,' etc, Honorary secretary London and Middlesex archaeological society; honorary Organising secretary of the Hampshire field club and Archaeological society, gives detailed analysis of the “Anglo Saxons”, and shows us that both Angles and Saxons were just terms used for complex federations of south Baltic Germanic, Norse and West Slavic tribes. He describes the late Iron Age and early medieval northern central Europe as a melting pot where future great nations of Franks, Angles, Saxons, Danes, Norse, were being created from tribal federations of mixed Germanic and Slavic ethnic, linguistic and cultural origin. This is what the Origin of Anglo – Saxon race has to say about the Franks:

The name Frank supplies a good example. This was the name of a great confederation,all the members of it agreeing in calling themselves free.
Hence, instead of assuming migrations (some historically improbable) to account for the Franks of France, the Franks of Franche-comte, and the Franks of Franconia, we may simply suppose them to be Franks of different divisions of the Frank confederation i.e., people of various great tribes united under a common designation. Again, the Angli are grouped with the Varini, not only as neighbouring nations on the east coast of Schleswig, but in the matter of laws under their later names, Angles and Warings. Similarly, we read of Goths and Vandals, of Frisians and Chaucians, of Goths and Burgundians, of Engles and Swaifas, of Franks and Batavians, of Wends and Saxons, of Frisians and Hunsings; and as we read of a Frank confederation, there was practically a Saxon one. In later centuries, under the general name of Danes, we are told by Henry of Huntingdon of Danes and Goths, Norwegians and Swedes, Vandals and Frisians, as the names of those people who desolated England for 230 years. 3 The later Saxon confederation is that which was opposed to Charlemagne, but there was certainly an earlier alliance, or there were common expeditions of Saxons and people of other tribes acting together in the invasion of England under the Saxon name.
One of the people who formed Saxon federation were Chauci. Thomas William Shore says this about Chauci:

We can trace various tribes of ancient Frisians viz., the Hunsings, the Brocmen, the Huntanga, and the Chaucians or Hocings, and others. These people appear all to have been designated at times as Frisians, and at other times by their own special or tribal names. The Chaucians, however, were a populous race, and may be regarded in some respects as a separate nation in close connection with, and never in opposition to, the Frisians. They were seated in the country between the Weser and the Elbe. The name Cuxhaven at the mouth of the Elbe is one which was probably derived from the Chaucians, and has come down to us as that of a place situated in their old country.
Among the tribes or allies of the Frisians the most important was the Chauci or Chaucians. Tacitus men- tions them as living on both sides of the Weser. Those settled between the Weser and the Elbe he called Chauci majores ; and those on the west of the Weser, but higher up the river, Chauci minor es. 2 His description of them is that of a considerable nation. He says that the land from Hessia was under the dominion of, and inhabited by, Chauci. He has left two accounts of them somewhat different, but that in his ' Germania ' is believed to have been written later than that in his ' Annals,' or ' History,' and it may well have been that before writing his later account he had had opportunities of learning more about them and correcting his previous statements. He says that the Chauci never excited wars nor harassed their neighbours, and that they wished to support their grandeur by justice. This description agrees with the character of the Frisians, and may perhaps be taken to refer also to them. The accounts which Tacitus gives of the German people between the Rhine and the Elbe are of more value than that of those beyond the Elbe, for in the former case he wrote from information collected from people who had actually travelled through the countries, which in the latter was probably not the case, as the countries were further removed from the Roman influence.
The question may here suggest itself : What have these Chauci or Chaucians to do with the English settlement ? I see no reason to doubt that they had a considerable share in it. Kemble found near Stade, in the part of ancient Frisia occupied by the Chaucians, and also far up the Weser, certain mortuary urns of a kind that is rare or unknown in other parts of Germany, but known to occur in Suffolk, Warwickshire, Derbyshire, the Isle of Wight, and other parts of England, and the Chaucian name apparently survives in many old English place-names.
Ptolemy's account of these people agrees in regard to their locality with that of Tacitus. He says that they were contiguous to the Frisii, and, like them, extended along the coast, but also further inland. He tells us also that the Frisii lay in front of the Angrivarii, who, as we have seen, were a tribe of the Saxons, for these Angrivarii of the earlier centuries were the same as the Angarians or Engern people of Carlovingian time. Ptolemy says that the Chauci reached to the Elbe. The survival of such a name as Cuxhaven in their old country is significant, the first syllable Cux having come form Chauc. This etymology, which has generally been adopted, is important in reference to the traces of the Chaucians which may be found in England. Here in an ancient Chaucian region a survival of the old tribal or national name exists in the form Cux. In various parts of England where Frisians settled we shall also find it.
The name under which the Chaucians are mentioned in the Sagas is that of Hocings. In Beowulf we read of them under this name. Word for word, says Latham, this word Hoeing is held to be that of Chauci by all, or most, who have written on the subject. Hoeing, however, with its suffix -ing, means not so much a Chaucus as of Chauch blood. 1 The identity of the names is established by the ancient sound of ch being equivalent to that of h. This identification will be of use in endeavouring to unravel the threads in the tangled skein of information which has come down to us relating to the people concerned in the English settlement. The Chauci as a nation have long since disappeared, and were probably absorbed by the Franks of Germany. Some of them, no doubt, migrated to England, where they were absorbed in the Old English race. If we look for traces of them in England through the names by which they were known in their Continental home, we shall discover many parts of the country in which small colonies of them probably settled. As regards their alternative name Hocings, philologists give us several examples of the equivalence of the early ch and h sounds in these tribal or national names. South of the Chauci another great tribe of German people known as the Chatti were situated, from which, according to German philologists, in which others concur, the name Hesse has been derived. The Hessians are the descendants of the ancient Chatti or Hatti. They are mentioned under the names Chattuarii, Attuarii, and Hetware. In the name Attuarii, as Latham has pointed out, the ch sound disappears altogether. Hesse also, says Latham, word for word is Chatti. The Old Frisian ch was equivalent to the Anglo-Saxon h. We may therefore accept the identity of the sounds chauc- and hoc- in the names Chauci and Hocings, and this will be of interest in reference to traces of them in England. At some time during the period of the growth of the Frank confederation the Chaucians assumed the name of Franks, and their name disappeared from history.
Among Domesday names of significance in reference to Frisians of the Chaucian tribe are Cochinges and Cocheha. As in some other counties in which there are traces of Wendish settlers, we find a place-name containing the root sem, probably derived from the old Slavonic word for land. It occurs in the Domesday place-name Semlintun.
The number of places in Sussex whose names bear a resemblance to Frisian names is remarkable. The terminal pronunciation of some of them in -urn and -un also resembles the Frisian. In Friesland we find Dokkum, Workum, Bergum, Akkrum, Wierum, Hallum, Ulrum, Loppersum, Makkum, Bedum, and others of the same kind. In Sussex we find Horsham (locally pronounced Horsum and Hawsom), Hailsham (Helsum), Sedlecombe (Selzcum), Friston (Frissun), Cocking (Cokkun), Lillington (Linkun). 1 The indications pointing to Frisians in this county are sufficient to show that people of this nation must have settled among the South Saxons.
That there were among these Frisians tribal Hunsings and Chaucians is probable from such family names as Friston, Hunston, the Domesday names Cocheha, Cokkefeld, and the numerous similar names, Cuckmere, Cuckfield, Cocking, Cockhais, Cockshut stream, Cokeham (a hamlet of Sompting), and Cooksbridge, north of Lewes. These latter, which may be compared with Cuxhaven in the old country of the Chaucians and similar names in various parts of England, point to family settlements of these tribal people.
Swaefes heale points to Saxons settled in East Berkshire, with Scandians, Wends, and Goths as their neighbours.
In this part of the country we also find the significant name of Cookham, mentioned in an Anglo-Saxon charter as Coccham, in Domesday Book as Cocheham. As already pointed out, a similar name Ceokan-ege occurs in an early charter relating to Battersea. There are many examples which show that the sounds g and k were interchangeable in names of the Anglo-Saxon period. Higher up the valley we find similar names viz., Cuxham, Coxwell, and others. These apparently have a common source, in the tribal name of the Chaucians, the Frisian tribe near the mouth of the Elbe.
The Chaucians, as previously mentioned, were also called Hocings, and both forms of their name are probably met with in place-names in the Thames valley. Hocheston, now part of London, is the Domesday name for Hoxton, and may denote the settlement of a Chaucian. In the eastern part of Berkshire we find separate hundreds mentioned in the Hundred Rolls for Sonning, Bray, Cogham or Cookham, and Windsor. This Cogham hundred of the thirteenth century may be a survival of a more ancient separate local administration, as the hundreds of Bray, Sunninges, and Windsor may be, of the original settlers at these places. Another entry under the name Cocheham occurs in Domesday Book in Burnham hundred in Buckinghamshire, not far from the Berkshire place of this name, so that some of this family or kindred appear to have lived on both sides of the river.
Now what this shows us is that we can find the Cauci, Chauci not only in South Baltic and in Leinster in Ireland, but also among the Anglo Saxons in England. These are the same areas where we later find the Dano Slavic Vikings of Danelaw.

I recommend the book as a must read for anyone who wants to understand the Iron Age and early medieval Baltic and its relationship with British Isles and Ireland. You can find the book here:

http://archive.org/stream/originofanglosax00shoruoft/originofanglosax00shoruoft_djvu.txt

It opened my eyes and showed me the link between the Iron Age invasions and Viking invasions of British Isles. It also shows the extent of intermixing between the Germanic and Slavic people of the South Baltic area.
 
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