Operation Cyclone - The Birth of Jihadism

Nov 2014
1,672
Birmingham, UK
by the way, my point on Deobandism was (and I will have to try to really be concise here as I am posting from my phone), summarised very brutally:

(1)Deobandism is currently a key ideological component of subcontinental jihadism
(2)Deobandism is an ideology that has been around for maybe 150 years and is an ideology that has a fairly 'muscular' idea of jihad at its core, and was itself born in the context of a particularly anti-imperialist form of jihad, therefore
(3) i cant see the current jihad as an entirely new phenomenon given its intellectual roots are so long-entrenched on the subcontinent.

though of course i would have to confess i am really no expert on subcontinental Islamic theology.
 
Feb 2015
2,038
UK
@ Arminius I will continue to put forth my thoughts on this later. Yes, I also had some great times in your city from 1992 to 1994 although I lived up the road above the hump over the motorway past Great Barr just within Walsall.
 

Ichon

Ad Honorem
Mar 2013
3,728
The problem is that you just described the Jihadism of South Asia from about 1980 to 2000 and even beyond. Much of the "extremism" is simply something that was created by such states. Its important to remember, that while Pakistan is formally an Islamic republic, the Judicial-Legislative setup isn't dominated by a religious class (atleast not until recently) and the main organizer of these groups - the Army - is not controlled by religion (so in that sense of the word, it is secular) and certainly the ends were blatantly political.
Yeah exactly- IRA, Red Brigades, Libya, Pol Pot, etc are not really linked to religious motivated extremism directly. So there was certainly terrorism before 1970s including in the middle east where for a little while much of the terrorism was conducted by leftists groups not religious reactionaries.

The rise of modern jihadi terrorism seems linked more to increase of oil money to Saudis who exported Wahhabism and the initial protection plus training the early jihadis received from U.S.

Normally blatant para-military forces would be crushed by local governments but Pakistan and others including U.S. actually encouraged jihadis to join war against Soviets and built up jihadi networks and this style of foreign fighters has now been exported around the world with rise of social media coinciding with explosion of youth in middle eastern nations creating a potent mix in a region already with combustible tendencies.
 

tornada

Ad Honoris
Mar 2013
15,388
India
Yeah exactly- IRA, Red Brigades, Libya, Pol Pot, etc are not really linked to religious motivated extremism directly. So there was certainly terrorism before 1970s including in the middle east where for a little while much of the terrorism was conducted by leftists groups not religious reactionaries.

The rise of modern jihadi terrorism seems linked more to increase of oil money to Saudis who exported Wahhabism and the initial protection plus training the early jihadis received from U.S.

Normally blatant para-military forces would be crushed by local governments but Pakistan and others including U.S. actually encouraged jihadis to join war against Soviets and built up jihadi networks and this style of foreign fighters has now been exported around the world with rise of social media coinciding with explosion of youth in middle eastern nations creating a potent mix in a region already with combustible tendencies.
The Pakistani state was using the terrorists and extremists and other non-state actors to push its own strategic agenda long before the Americans appeared on the scene. Infact the idea of using non-state actors to push such actions by Pakistan dates pretty much to 1947, when the first Indo-Pak war started due to the use of such forces. Pakistan would only "crush" those opposed to their strategic outlook. It nurtured and raised those whom it liked. Course, then they'd split, or start targeting "infidels" in Pakistan, etc and soon turn out of control. When the Americans arrived, the Pakistani exploitation of such actors expanded rapidly, but it had existed in the past.
 
Mar 2012
18,030
In the bag of ecstatic squirt
Was this the responsibility of the Americans as well, and did it have anything at all to do with Afghanistan?



Aren't you forgetting to include organizations like Muslim Brotherhood, the PLO, and others into your blaming jihadism on the United States? Are you going to white wash extremist spiritual leaders like Rashid Rida or Sayyid Qutb?
Exactly. Even before the U.S. gave its succor to the Afghan people during the Soviet expansion of its territories there had been organized jihadist movements against nations like Israel.

In the Philippines jihadist groups like MNLF and MILF predates this turn of events.