Order vs Chaos

Oct 2011
3,738
the middle ground
#11
But both had domestic agendas and a clear vision for the society they wanted to create. The warlike times they lived in allowed their ascent, certainly, but they tried to make the most of peace when they could find it.
"When they could find it" is where opinions differ on their respective actions - for example, were the invasions of Spain or Russia defensive, pre-emptive, or aggressive? From St. Helena, Napoleon could make the claim that he did all for the greater good of Europe (under his leadership); his opponents obviously disagreed.
 
Likes: Commodus

Chlodio

Ad Honorem
Aug 2016
3,387
Dispargum
#12
But both had domestic agendas and a clear vision for the society they wanted to create. The warlike times they lived in allowed their ascent, certainly, but they tried to make the most of peace when they could find it.
Let me put it another way. What do you find most interesting? The civil wars of Caesar and Augustus or the relative tranquility of the later Julio-Claudians that was made possible by Caesar's and Augustus' quest for order?

If Caesar and Augustus had lived in tranquil times we never would have heard of their quest for order.
 
#13
Let me put it another way. What do you find most interesting? The civil wars of Caesar and Augustus or the relative tranquility of the later Julio-Claudians that was made possible by Caesar's and Augustus' quest for order?
For me, definitely the period of relative tranquility is the most interesting. The civil wars was a disgusting, wasteful, obscene and basically pointless story of Romans killing Romans, all for the purpose of deciding which particular mafia family should hold unchallengeable power.

It isn't as if life is boring when people are not killing each other (and killing never really stopped, think of gladiators)! People can then concentrate on improving their lives. The actions of putting up so many marble buildings, a new forum, aqueduct etc etc are very interesting to me.
 

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