Origins of Aryans

Jun 2019
88
ru
Now it is generally accepted that the aryans come from Andronovo culture, modern Kazakhstan and the Urals.


In particular, there is data on the distribution of chariots



But it is strange that the first written sources, the Vedas, date back only to the 5th century, and it is not clear where 1500 years of culture disappeared

Also, why it's so long period between distribution in East and West Europe(west of the Rhine), it's related to Rome?
 
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Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
5,006
India
Now it is generally accepted that the aryans come from Andronovo culture, modern Kazakhstan and the Urals.


In particular, there is data on the distribution of chariots



But it is strange that the first written sources, the Vedas, date back only to the 5th century, and it is not clear where 1500 years of culture disappeared

Also, why it's so long period between distribution in East and West Europe(west of the Rhine), it's related to Rome?
Vedas could be older than 2000 BC, the holiest river Saraswati/Ghaggar-Hakra mentioned in Rigveda dried in 1900BC as per radio carbon dating. 1500BC date of IE spread to India is rather dubious and based on imagination.

Second, IE and Aryan can't be same, Arya/Airya is rather a subset comprising of Indo-Iranian people only.
 
Jun 2019
88
ru
Vedas could be older than 2000 BC, the holiest river Saraswati/Ghaggar-Hakra mentioned in Rigveda dried in 1900BC as per radio carbon dating. 1500BC date of IE spread to India is rather dubious and based on imagination.
Why are there no other written sources of that early period?
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
5,006
India
IE migration to India could be pre-Harappan. The verses in Vedas comprise the language evolution from archaic Vedic Sanskrit towards classical Sanskrit which was standardized by Panini around 500-400BC.
 
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Sep 2014
983
Texas
The term IndoAryan came into being after the IndoEuropeans separated in the Septem and Centum language groups. When the horse was domesticated around 7000 BC they were still united.
Mittani the ancestor of the Vedic Indians and the modern Rajputs of Northern India were history's first great horse breeders. 1574178135572.png

Akhenaton traded for horses with the Mittani and artwork from that era shows the distinctive Matwari/LKathiawari ears.

The first horse is a pure white SB1 sabino.1574178229058.png The other beautiful Marwari is a called a Tobiano in America, Nukar in India.

The split between the two groups happened after the tobiano was created (my contention is it was the color of the first domestic horse). This beautiful pinto colored horse is found in both Celtic and Indian breeds.1574178369418.png This is an Icelandic pony, among the purest descendants of the Celtic pony alive. Sabino, nonSB1 and SB1 are not found in the Icelandic...he is a very old breed. NonSB1 sabino is not found in the Indian horse breeds/

Leopard horses originated in the Persian/Median war horses. The breed was called the Nisean and was the most valuable horse in the ancient world. All leopard horses get their color from this now extinct breed.1574178567078.png DNA testing on bones found in Romania and Rulgaria found the Lp gene present in horses that were alive at the end of the Pleistocene Age. They had to survive long enough for the Medes to pass through the region. The legend of Rustam and Rakush say the first Lp stallion was yellow with a red mane and tail and red spots. No white. This fits my belief that wild mares because of their unique color were added to the Median herds. The Scythians who were enemies of the Medes in historic times made that part of the steppes their homeland driving the Medes farther east. We know that the Lp horse was firmly established within the Mede horses by the time of the rise of Assyria, who routinely stole horses from the Medes with the help of the Scythians. The oldest mention of this color comes for the Old Testament which mentions an angel driving a chariot of grizzled horses.

Words like Agni and ignite, one an Indian god the other a Latin word for lighting a fire, show a common ancestry at one time, along with legends, myths and stories. I discovered when I was learning Celtic lore that there were many similarities with some stories from Persia and India. Cichulainn, Achilles and Rustam are the same guy separated by a couple of thousand years.
 
Jun 2019
88
ru
The term IndoAryan came into being after the IndoEuropeans separated in the Septem and Centum language groups. When the horse was domesticated around 7000 BC they were still united.
Mittani the ancestor of the Vedic Indians and the modern Rajputs of Northern India were history's first great horse breeders.
Mittani was later than Andronovo, 1500-1300
The Scythians who were enemies of the Medes
Greeks wrote that the Scythians founded Media
Also thay was enemies of Assyrians
 
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Nov 2016
1,266
Germany
According to Marija Gimbutas, the Kurgans = Aryans came from Southern Russia. She describes the first wave as a "First Wave of relatively small groups of Kurgan infiltrators" (in: "The Three Waves of Kurgan People into Old Europe, 4500-2500 B.C."). The penetration of the Kurgan people into Old Europe is described in the article as Gimbutas either as "intrusion", "infiltration" or "invasion".

Gimbutas, "The Three Waves of Kurgan People into Old Europe, 4500-2500 B.C.", p. 114:

The Old Europe and the Kurgan cultures were completely opposite; Old Europe: sedentary-horticultural, dwelling in large agglomerations; Kurgan: mobile, living in small villages. The first - matrilinear, egalitarian, peaceful; the second - patriarchal, ranked and warlike. The respective ideologies produced different sets of gods and symbols. The Old European ideology was focused on the eternal aspects of birth, death and regeneration, symbolized by the feminine principle, a Mother Creatrix. The patriarchal Kurgan ideology (also known from comparative Indo-European mythology) was centered on the virile male, heroic warrior gods of the shining and thunderous sky. The Old Europeans put no emphasis on dangerous weapons, whereas the Kurgans (like all historically known Indo-Europeans) glorified the sharp blade.

In my words:

+ Old Europe and the Kurgan cultures were completely opposite;

+ Old Europe: sedentary plant breeding, living in large settlements; Kurgan: mobile, living in small villages.

+ The former (Old Europe) - matrilinear, egalitarian, peaceful;

+ The latter (Kurgan) - patriarchal, hierarchical and warlike.

+ The respective ideologies produced different systems of gods and symbols.



 
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Sep 2014
983
Texas
Mittani was later than Andronovo, 1500-1300

Greeks wrote that the Scythians founded Media
Also thay was enemies of Assyrians
Dr. Olmstead of the University of Chicago and one time the foremost authority on Persia, his book about the Achaemideans is still required reading, stated that the Medes to get rid of the Scythians before the final attack on Assyria, invited them to a dinner party, got them drunk and killed them. A later Achaemedian king tried the same thing and ended up capturing Tomyis' son...yeah Cyrus did that. The Scythians were the allies of Assyria. And they arrived too late to help them.
I have Olmstead's the Frightfulness of Ashurbanipal on my computer.1574223531306.png I consider The History of the Persian Empire as one of the great books of History along with the classics from Greece and Rome.
 
Jun 2019
88
ru
Dr. Olmstead of the University of Chicago and one time the foremost authority on Persia, his book about the Achaemideans is still required reading, stated that the Medes to get rid of the Scythians before the final attack on Assyria, invited them to a dinner party, got them drunk and killed them. A later Achaemedian king tried the same thing and ended up capturing Tomyis' son...yeah Cyrus did that. The Scythians were the allies of Assyria. And they arrived too late to help them.
Why we must believe in "doctor" but not believe in real historical memories and sources?
 
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