Outside powers and the 1971 India-Pakistan War

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,117
New Delhi, India
#21
Despite how much money or military help Americans give to Pakistan, Pakistanis will forever remain anti-American.
Pakistan does not need money, but if Americans can give it Afghanistan, they would forever be grateful for that. Because that opens Central Asia for them.
 
Oct 2015
899
India
#22
. . . Sure, the seventh fleet conventional arms could have caused a lot of damage on the coast, but landing an army is another matter.
You have a point here. Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw also says the same thing. In this interview (in Hindi language), many years after the 1971 war, he says says two things:

  1. He told the worried Indian politicians & bureaucrats that if the Americans had used nuclear weapons then he could have have done nothing. But that he felt sure that they would not because public opinion in their own country will never allow that.
  2. Had the Americans landed soldiers in Bangladesh? he replied that he was not afraid of this. He (Sam Manekshaw) would have make himself a general by defeating both the Pakistani Army and American as well.

 
Sep 2012
8,846
India
#23
Despite how much money or military help Americans give to Pakistan, Pakistanis will forever remain anti-American.
And the USA deserves this. President Kennedy was truly sympathetic to India and its struggles to rise above the quagmire of poverty and develope itself. Yet no USA president thereafter seems to have any kind of a feeling for India. Yet they loved Pakistan, for the same reasons that the British loved ( and continue to love ) Muslims rather than Hindus. The British probably think that Muslims are more macho than the Hindus, a grievous mistake also made by Ayub Khan, military dictator of Pakistan prior to launching his ill thought adventure against India in 1965.
 
Apr 2018
181
India
#24
And to think that none of the three service chiefs were present at his funeral but Barack Obama remembered to pay tribute. Whatever...IMHO, judging by contemporary political trends, it can be easily concluded that the US government (read Nixie) was in no position to order even a single marine onto Indian or East Pakistani soil. If we look at some important Vietnam War related events of 1971 -

23 April
Vietnam veterans threw away over 700 medals on the west steps of the United States Capitol building in Washington to protest the Vietnam War. The next day, antiwar organizers claimed that 500,000 marched, making this the largest demonstration since the November 1969 march.

3 May
15,000 soldiers and police arrested more than 7,000 persons protesting the Vietnam War in Washington.

5 May
1146 protesters against the Vietnam War were arrested on the U.S. Capitol grounds in Washington trying to shut down the U.S. Congress. This brought the total arrested during the 1971 May Day Protests to over 12,000.

31 May
National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger in secret peace negotiations with North Vietnam in Paris, France introduced a new proposal. He proposed a U.S. withdrawal from South Vietnam, a cease fire in place, and an exchange of prisoners. The cease fire in place was a key concession because it would allow North Vietnamese soldiers to remain in South Vietnam at least temporarily.

24 June
The Mansfield Amendment, authored by Senator Mike Mansfield, was adopted by Congress. The amendment urged withdrawing American troops from South Vietnam at "the earliest practical date"—the first time in U.S. history that Congress had called for the end of a war.

26 July
Kissinger announced that the United States was prepared to provide $7.5 billion in aid to Vietnam, of which $2.5 billion could go to North Vietnam, and to withdraw all American forces within nine months.

11 October
Several U.S. soldiers at Firebase Pace near the Cambodian border refused to undertake a patrol outside the perimeter of the firebase. The combat refusal was widely reported by the media as was a letter signed by 65 American soldiers at Firebase Pace to U.S. Senator Edward M. Kennedy protesting that they were being ordered to participate in offensive combat operations despite U.S. policy to the contrary.

12 October
President Nixon announced that "American troops are now in a defensive position...the offensive activities of search and destroy are now being undertaken by the South Vietnamese".

31 December
The number of U.S. military personnel in South Vietnam totaled 156,800, down from more than 500,000 three years earlier.

Under these circumstances no fool (even a moron of a century like Nixon) would have risked another full blown land war with something like India. The whole thing was about posturing and waiting for the other guy to blink. Unfortunately the other guy called the bluff.

One more thing, the US ground forces were at their worst in those days. Year after year of conscription wreaked havoc on the discipline and commitment of troops (or should I say the quality of troops). In no other war in recent US history were there so many reported incidents of insubordination, fragging, drug abuse or racial tension among ranks as in Nam. Morale was all time low, coupled with general frustration related to fighting an attrition war without any motivation. It was nothing like today's US military, or the US military that fought off the Chinese in Korea. How effective they would have been in another war at the same time not so far away from Vietnam is a matter of speculation, but one can hazard a guess. [I'm talking strictly in terms of ground forces].

The list above is selective. For the complete one go to - 1971 in the Vietnam War - Wikipedia
 
Oct 2015
899
India
#26
And to think that none of the three service chiefs were present at his funeral but Barack Obama remembered to pay tribute. Whatever...IMHO, judging by contemporary political trends, it can be easily concluded that the US government (read Nixie) was in no position to order even a single marine onto Indian or East Pakistani soil. If we look at some important Vietnam War related events of 1971 -
Yes, in this case he would never have ordered landing troop in East Pakistan / India. I wonder what was he trying to do by sending 7th Fleet?
 

kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,527
USA
#27
And the USA deserves this. President Kennedy was truly sympathetic to India and its struggles to rise above the quagmire of poverty and develope itself. Yet no USA president thereafter seems to have any kind of a feeling for India. Yet they loved Pakistan, for the same reasons that the British loved ( and continue to love ) Muslims rather than Hindus. The British probably think that Muslims are more macho than the Hindus, a grievous mistake also made by Ayub Khan, military dictator of Pakistan prior to launching his ill thought adventure against India in 1965.
Western attitude towards Muslims changed after the 9/11, after they got a real taste of Muslim macho-ness. Until then Western people had forgotten centuries of hostilities between them and the world of Islam.
 
Likes: prashanth
Sep 2012
8,846
India
#28
Yes, in this case he would never have ordered landing troop in East Pakistan / India. I wonder what was he trying to do by sending 7th Fleet?
Nixon and his guru Kissinger were anti-Indian in the extreme. Nixon is on record calling Mrs.Indira Gandhi as a ' b****h ''repeatedly in his conversation with the Pakistan lover Kissinger. I wonder how could the sensible and sensitive people of the USA could ever elect him as their President.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
14,279
SoCal
#29
Nixon and his guru Kissinger were anti-Indian in the extreme. Nixon is on record calling Mrs.Indira Gandhi as a ' b****h ''repeatedly in his conversation with the Pakistan lover Kissinger. I wonder how could the sensible and sensitive people of the USA could ever elect him as their President.
We were fed up with the Vietnam War and also Southerners in the US disliked the Democrats' support of desegregation.
 
Apr 2018
181
India
#30
Yes, in this case he would never have ordered landing troop in East Pakistan / India. I wonder what was he trying to do by sending 7th Fleet?
Gunboat diplomacy. First of all it was Enterprise CBG TF 74, not the whole fleet. Enough to intimidate, just enough to carry out some punitive strikes if things REALLY had gone south but not nearly enough to support a campaign. India has done it too, but at a far smaller scale. In 1986 a coup attempt against the PM of Seychelles was averted becusae INS Vindhyagiri stayed at Victoria port a little longer than intended.

Operation Flowers are Blooming - Wikipedia
 

Similar History Discussions