Painted Grey Ware - connecting archaeology with textual records and legends.

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,849
New Delhi, India
Aryans and related tribes traveled far and wide. So I suppose from 'Parama-Kamboja' (Tajikistan/Kyrgyzstan) to Sarasvata Pradesh and when the river dried up Kashmir.
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
5,020
India
Aryans and related tribes traveled far and wide. So I suppose from 'Parama-Kamboja' (Tajikistan/Kyrgyzstan) to Sarasvata Pradesh and when the river dried up Kashmir.
Kambojas founded a kingdom around Rajouri but never heard of them migrating to Valley. Besides, why would Kshatriyas would end up becoming Brahmins. Foreign race was never integrated as Brahmins in India but they were bestowed with Kshtriya caste status as they mainly arrived as soldiers.
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,849
New Delhi, India
In each tribe there were four divisions. Like Varshneya brahmins and the Vrishni warriors like Krishna. It is not that all the Kambojas were kshatriyas. My progenitor Upamanyu was a brahmin. He has a verse in RigVeda in praise of Soma.
 
Feb 2014
1,429
Asia
THE PROBLEM OF THE MAHĀBHĀRATA HISTORICITY BY PROF. B.B. LAL

There are Two extremely divergent views about the Historicity of the Mahabharata. To the faithful, everything mentioned in the Text is TRUE TO THE VERY LETTER --To some others, it is a mere FIGMENT OF IMAGINATION The reason for such a confusion lies in the very nature of the epic itself.

*[ NB-- "Nothing happens in a vacuum" ---All the famous Epic poems all over the world have an underlying narrative with a subliminal message is couched with some "Historical Truths" in the context of time and space which is not very obvious -- unless it is deciphered or deconstructed with an astute and penetrating sagacity otherwise it may be very Misleading ! - By Niroshan ]*

On the other hand, parts of the text may be as late as the 4th Cent. CE – what a Yawning gap between the event and the text!
Nice sharing and comment Niroshan.

I think the confusions are not because of a long gap that existed between the Painted Grey Ware Culture and the final compilation of Mahabharata during the Gupta Period. But because of the mix-up of mythology or we can say folklore of the Kuru-Panchala people with the political developments that they saw around them.
 
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Feb 2014
1,429
Asia
Aupmanyav said:
Our caste is Kashmiri brahmins - pandits - Sarasvatas, sure. We have not been addressed as Gauda brahmins.
Wikipedia lists us as "Upamanyu: Vashista, Aindrapramada, Bhadravasavya"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravaras#Gotra_Pravara

I do not belong to any Sutra or Shakha. If my family belonged to any, my grandpa never told me about it. I have charted out my own way, I am sort of a free-lance artist now. :D
Yes, Kashmiri pandits and almost all Brahmins who originate from the Northwest Indian subcontinent are counted under Sarasvat Brahmins.
 
Sep 2015
451
Sri Lanka
Confusion witin confusion!

Nice sharing and comment Niroshan.

I think the confusions are not because of a long gap that existed between the Painted Grey Ware Culture and the final compilation of Mahabharata during the Gupta Period. But because of the mix-up of mythology or we can say folklore of the Kuru-Panchala people with the political developments that they saw around them.

"The Reason for such a Confusion lies in the Very Nature of the Epic itself. Say, for example, if Krishna was a Historical figure, he is Unlikely to have been later than Buddha who lived in 6th -5th centuries BCE!. [Prof. Lal]
Not Because mainly of the long gap that existed between PGWC and final compilation during Gupta Era [although he pointed that out in his lecture ]
Please Remember He was the man who publically regretted very much for his own Archaeological excavations of Mahabaratha towns !.
I very much doubt that There was any mythological or Folklore confusion as you imagine! May be the Subterfuges and Subtle Deceptions in the Social and Political developments to mislead the Ignorant Masses but who knows the truth? .
However People have the right to express their own views ,depending on their level of understanding and wishful thinking ! I am sorry that I can't say anymore on this subject !
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,849
New Delhi, India
.. if Krishna was a Historical figure, .. I very much doubt that There was any mythological or Folklore confusion as you imagine! May be the Subterfuges and Subtle Deceptions in the Social and Political developments to mislead the Ignorant Masses but who knows the truth?
Rama and Krishna need not be historical personages. They are indigenous regional Gods (now accepted by all Hindus) and folk heroes. The stories are older than Aryan advent into India. Aryans made them into Aryans in the stories. A common Hindu is least bothered about that. What deceptions and subterfuges are you talking about? Trying to be 'conspiracy theorist'?
 
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Sep 2015
451
Sri Lanka
Dark coloured rama and krishna in ancient india

Rama and Krishna need not be historical personages. They are indigenous regional Gods (now accepted by all Hindus) and folk heroes. The stories are older than Aryan advent into India. Aryans made them into Aryans in the stories. A common Hindu is least bothered about that. What deceptions and subterfuges are you talking about? Trying to be 'conspiracy theorist'?

They are Indigenous Regional Gods in the ancient India? Wow ! In What Regions of India please ??---For your Information story of king "Rama" Is Mentioned in Sumerian History in Iran/ Media Before The Advent of Aryan into India!

The Stories are older than Aryan Advent into India ?
I have to find a Harappan man-- To Find out whether you are telling me the truth or living in your own Fantasy Neo-Aryan World !

What Deceptions/Conspiracy ? Do I need to Answer this now :)

With Love from my Heart as ever --I really Mean it <3 <3 <3
 
Feb 2014
1,429
Asia
"The Reason for such a Confusion lies in the Very Nature of the Epic itself. Say, for example, if Krishna was a Historical figure, he is Unlikely to have been later than Buddha who lived in 6th -5th centuries BCE!. [Prof. Lal]
Not Because mainly of the long gap that existed between PGWC and final compilation during Gupta Era [although he pointed that out in his lecture ]
Please Remember He was the man who publically regretted very much for his own Archaeological excavations of Mahabaratha towns !.
I very much doubt that There was any mythological or Folklore confusion as you imagine! May be the Subterfuges and Subtle Deceptions in the Social and Political developments to mislead the Ignorant Masses but who knows the truth? .
However People have the right to express their own views ,depending on their level of understanding and wishful thinking ! I am sorry that I can't say anymore on this subject !
When BB Lal says the confusion lies in the 'nature' of the epic. Then that 'nature' is 'mythology'... If 'TODAY' I write down some folk story that was orally transmitted in my family for generation, then it is just ridiculous to assume that the hero of that folk story is born in 2017 AD.
 
Feb 2014
1,429
Asia
Rama and Krishna need not be historical personages. They are indigenous regional Gods (now accepted by all Hindus) and folk heroes. The stories are older than Aryan advent into India. Aryans made them into Aryans in the stories. A common Hindu is least bothered about that. What deceptions and subterfuges are you talking about? Trying to be 'conspiracy theorist'?
Very true, I would say the most of the characters in these epics are mythological. But that doesn't mean we cannot get anything from these texts. Hastinapur, Indraprastha, Mathura and Ahichhatra existed. Kurus and Panchalas existed. And so does existed their folklore...

P.S. Though I consider that Krishna and Arjuna came as a part of Kuru-Panchala folklore, rather than coming from Harappan tradition.