Patriarchy in Western Civilization

Ichon

Ad Honorem
Mar 2013
3,724
Do you think current divorce laws in the west, favor men ?

A recent study by the American Sociological Association found that women initiate two thirds of all divorces, a staggering 69% to be exact. An even higher rate of 90% of all divorces are initiated by college-educated women.
The number 1 reason cited for divorce is infidelity so... 69% initiated by women makes sense from a sexual gender perspective as an older women with children is less desirable mate while an older man tends to be more desirable because he is higher earning power than a younger man and this is even more true for college educated men.

Who takes more risk in a marriage- men or women? Men could have their future earnings taken but most of the time this is due to having to support children. If the divorce happens where once spouse gave up career or career opportunities than they might get some compensation from the other spouse but that tends to be much lower than child support payments. It seems to me women take on more of the risk in marriage given that IF they do not have children and continue working their full career their earning potential is as high as men in most career fields AND they are committing to marriage while they are in their most desirable child birthing years while men have a higher desirability ratings as they get older up to about 60 where it starts to decline.

 

Chlodio

Forum Staff
Aug 2016
4,723
Dispargum
Do you think current divorce laws in the west, favor men ?

A recent study by the American Sociological Association found that women initiate two thirds of all divorces, a staggering 69% to be exact. An even higher rate of 90% of all divorces are initiated by college-educated women.
People don't get divorced because the divorce laws favor their gender. People get divorced because they are stuck in unhappy marriages. All I can conclude from your statistic is that women are more likely to be unhappy with their marriages.
 
Sep 2015
407
The Eastern Hinterlands
It has pretty much become a mantra that western civilization was (and some claim still is) "patriarchal" (men control society and call the shots) and unfair to women in a variety of ways.

However if we take this view, how do we explain the following:

1- Why did only men (apart from rare exceptions) had to fight and die in wars until very recent times

2- Why is divorce so complicated for men, and why do women (especially in the US) get so much in case of divorce (e.g. : the Bezos divorce)

3- Why the "women and children first" (e.g. the Titanic) motto.. Note than in this motto women come even before children

The 3 above points (and these are not the only ones) are clearly unfavorable to men. Why would a patriarchy come up with such rules ?
Pushing the argument, why were women simply not turned into sex slaves/domestic help with no rights whatsoever ?

The world has to be a patriarchy because men are mentally and physically more able to run the bigger and more important aspects of life. That's how it's meant to be. History and science attest to that. The attack against patriarchy in the past fifty or so years is an aberration akin to Nazism and Communism in that it goes against human nature and sows nothing but discord and tragedy in its wake. As to why that occurs you'll have to delve into the realms of conspiracy theories to come up with some sort of conclusion but one thing's for sure and that it won't lead to any good.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,030
People don't get divorced because the divorce laws favor their gender. People get divorced because they are stuck in unhappy marriages. All I can conclude from your statistic is that women are more likely to be unhappy with their marriages.
Not all of them obviously, but many of them do... I assume you are familiar with the term "gold digger" ? .... At the very least favorable divorce laws provide an incentive to go the divorce path......
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,030
The number 1 reason cited for divorce is infidelity so... 69% initiated by women makes sense from a sexual gender perspective as an older women with children is less desirable mate while an older man tends to be more desirable because he is higher earning power than a younger man and this is even more true for college educated men.

Who takes more risk in a marriage- men or women? Men could have their future earnings taken but most of the time this is due to having to support children. If the divorce happens where once spouse gave up career or career opportunities than they might get some compensation from the other spouse but that tends to be much lower than child support payments. It seems to me women take on more of the risk in marriage given that IF they do not have children and continue working their full career their earning potential is as high as men in most career fields AND they are committing to marriage while they are in their most desirable child birthing years while men have a higher desirability ratings as they get older up to about 60 where it starts to decline.

Why are women insisting on marriage then, when men are mostly trying to avoid it ?
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,030
I don't understand your argument. Are you saying that divorce favours women because they are able to divorce?
No, I am saying that women are initiating divorce in the US (90% in the case of college graduates!) because divorce favors them (going even further a woman's "game" is to get a man to marry her, because marriage AND divorce favors her)... The fact that divorce favors women does not reconcile with the alleged "patriarchy" of western civilization (unless it is a masochistic patriarchy)
 
May 2017
222
Monterrey
No, I am saying that women are initiating divorce in the US (90% in the case of college graduates!) because divorce favors them (going even further a woman's "game" is to get a man to marry her, because marriage AND divorce favors her)... The fact that divorce favors women does not reconcile with the alleged "patriarchy" of western civilization (unless it is a masochistic patriarchy)
Okay, but you are saying that women initiate divorce because it favours them, and you are saying that because they initiate divorce it favours them. That's circular logic. Furthermore, you are saying that because this is the case TODAY it must have ALWAYS been the case. How do you then explain the fact that the divorce rates only started rising when women started getting rights? That is to say, after the early 1900's. I think you've been reading too many incles sites (as your golddigger comment suggests). There's plenty of information out there if you actually want to find out the reasons and history.
 
Last edited:

Chlodio

Forum Staff
Aug 2016
4,723
Dispargum
Not all of them obviously, but many of them do... I assume you are familiar with the term "gold digger" ? .... At the very least favorable divorce laws provide an incentive to go the divorce path......
Gold diggers marry for money. Very few people marry with the intention of getting divorced.

Why are women insisting on marriage then, when men are mostly trying to avoid it ?
Because society is patriarchal and marriage is one of the few ways for women to gain security. Men have more options and are less dependent upon marriage. Or maybe it's because the male and female brains are wired differently. The female brain has a stronger desire for permanent companionship.

No, I am saying that women are initiating divorce in the US (90% in the case of college graduates!) because divorce favors them (going even further a woman's "game" is to get a man to marry her, because marriage AND divorce favors her)... The fact that divorce favors women does not reconcile with the alleged "patriarchy" of western civilization (unless it is a masochistic patriarchy)
I find your theory of masochistic patriarchy more appealing than your other arguments. It also applies to 'Women and children first.' It's closely related to the idea of noblesse oblige - that those in positions of power have an obligation to look out for those who lack power.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,030
Gold diggers marry for money. Very few people marry with the intention of getting divorced.
Fun movie



Anyway , marriage is step 1 and does not always get the gold digger the money she wants... Divorce on the other hand will.....
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,030
Because society is patriarchal and marriage is one of the few ways for women to gain security. Men have more options and are less dependent upon marriage. Or maybe it's because the male and female brains are wired differently. The female brain has a stronger desire for permanent companionship.
Or because marriage (and divorce) is a contract that is skewed towards the interests of women....

As a girl, marriage is an offer you cant refuse