PC: A Polish-Hungarian Commonwealth?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,239
SoCal
Is there actually a realistic way to create a Polish-Hungarian Commonwealth instead of a Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth? If so, how exactly does one go about actually achieving this?
 
Apr 2017
1,654
U.S.A.
A single king did sit on the Polish and Hungarian throne before, I believe in the 1300's. If this did happen it would be problematic with the ottoman invasion. Geography would make it difficult for Poland to defend the Hungarian territories and they would probably simply abandon them. If Austria has no Hungarian realm to inherit they would be less interested in fighting the turks. This could lead to Hungary being under ottoman rule for hundreds of years.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,239
SoCal
A single king did sit on the Polish and Hungarian throne before, I believe in the 1300's. If this did happen it would be problematic with the ottoman invasion. Geography would make it difficult for Poland to defend the Hungarian territories and they would probably simply abandon them. If Austria has no Hungarian realm to inherit they would be less interested in fighting the turks. This could lead to Hungary being under ottoman rule for hundreds of years.
The Ottomans are still going to come to Vienna, so Austria will have to fight them eventually whether they want to or not.

The Ottomans are going to need to go all of the way up to the Carpathians if they want to have a secure northern border. Else, Poland would be perfectly capable of gradually nibbling away at the northern parts of the Ottoman Empire.
 
Last edited:
Apr 2017
1,654
U.S.A.
The Ottomans are still going to come to Vienna, so Austria will have to fight them eventually whether they want to or not.

The Ottomans are going to need all of the way up to the Carpathians if they want to have a secure northern border. Else, Poland would be perfectly capable of gradually nibbling away at the northern parts of the Ottoman Empire.
Crossing the Carpathians is a slow process, especially in conflict. The Ottomans could threaten Poland in the Ukraine as well and at most of this time Poland was in poor shape.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,239
SoCal
If the Ottomans are actually going to reach the Carpathians, then Yes, they'll have a very defensible border for themselves. Still, Poland could ally with Russia to push the Ottomans back.

The Ottomans already had a presence in Crimea and thus were already capable of threatening other parts of Ukraine, no?
 
Apr 2017
1,654
U.S.A.
If the Ottomans are actually going to reach the Carpathians, then Yes, they'll have a very defensible border for themselves. Still, Poland could ally with Russia to push the Ottomans back.

The Ottomans already had a presence in Crimea and thus were already capable of threatening other parts of Ukraine, no?
Russia at the time wasn't very powerful and still had to concern itself with the tartar states. Poland wasn't very powerful at the time (that could change for this scenario) and the Ottoman empire at the time was one of the most powerful states in the world.
For Poland sending troops/supplies across the carpathians would be difficult, the terrain would slow it and maintaining supply lines over this distance would be difficult.
 
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Apr 2017
1,654
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I meant eventually, not immediately. More like in a century or two.
Russia spent much of the 1600's and 1700's expanding in different directions, not significantly challenging the Otttomans (Peter the great did but not a lot). If Poland was locked in an eternal struggle with the Ottomans, Russia would be more likely to attack the Poles. Poland also had several wars with Sweden at the time, so their prospects don't look good in this period.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,239
SoCal
Russia spent much of the 1600's and 1700's expanding in different directions, not significantly challenging the Otttomans (Peter the great did but not a lot). If Poland was locked in an eternal struggle with the Ottomans, Russia would be more likely to attack the Poles. Poland also had several wars with Sweden at the time, so their prospects don't look good in this period.
Makes sense.

Of course, after Russia is finished with the Poles and done expanding in other directions, then it can focus on the Ottomans and kicking them out of Europe.
 
Apr 2017
1,654
U.S.A.
Makes sense.

Of course, after Russia is finished with the Poles and done expanding in other directions, then it can focus on the Ottomans and kicking them out of Europe.
That's pretty much what they did in real life. After Poland was wiped off the map (and Napoleon defeated) the Russians focused mostly on expanding into the Ottoman territories (and central asia).
 
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