Peninsular War

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
4,878
Portugal
#83
See also the French seige Zaragoza or the capture of the Portuguese town of Coimbra.
Curious that you mention Coimbra. I really have the idea that it really didn’t produced many historiography the sack of the city during the first three days of October, 1810, until it was recaptured by the Militias. For instance the entry of the French in Porto, in 1809, is much more mentioned. You sentence just made me want to read about it again.

France was not an ally. Of course. But in the minds of the Anglo-Portuguese neither were the people in Badajoz.
Interesting. Why you say that? Spain was an allied for some 2/3 years. Now I don’t recall to have read anything about the idea of the British or Portuguese about the fellows in Badajoz, so I can’t say I agree or disagree with you.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,144
Spain
#84
Dear Martin

The French revolutionaries declared war on Great Britain. Pitt tried to keep Britain out of the conflict. Subsitute the USA for Britain and Nazi Germany for French Revolutionaries and it all gets like a re-run in 1941.
Dear Peccavi,

You are right. It was France who declared war on Britain and Spain in 1793.

Dear Frank

Of course Napoleon was guilty and the main responsable for the War.. but I don´t think he wanted the war. He thought it would be a "political operation"... as it took place in Netherlands, Italian States or Poland.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,144
Spain
#85
Curious that you mention Coimbra. I really have the idea that it really didn’t produced many historiography the sack of the city during the first three days of October, 1810, until it was recaptured by the Militias. For instance the entry of the French in Porto, in 1809, is much more mentioned. You sentence just made me want to read about it again.



Interesting. Why you say that? Spain was an allied for some 2/3 years. Now I don’t recall to have read anything about the idea of the British or Portuguese about the fellows in Badajoz, so I can’t say I agree or disagree with you.
I agree. Spain was allied from 1793 to 1795 and from 1808 to 1815.
 
Apr 2019
13
On my horse.
#86
What was the worst Spain could have done had Napoleon chosen to play one Bourbon against the other ?
Spain might have been a sullen ally that had not received many gains through the wars but they did not have any other options. Short of France invading, Britain and Spain were not going to be allies.
So what happens next ? Spain has already lost its grip over its colonies and its maritime trade has suffered.
 
Last edited:

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,144
Spain
#87
What was the worst Spain could have done had Napoleon chosen to play one Bourbon against the other ?
Spain might have been a sullen ally that had not received many gains through the wars but they did not have any other options. Short of France invading, Britain and Spain were not going to be allies.
So what happens next ? Spain has already lost its grip over its colonies and its maritime trade has suffered.
Exactly.. if Napoleon had chosen Ferdinand over his father, Charles.... in that case.. not war in Spain... and so we don´t know how would it has been history....but he didn´t.... he betrayed Spanish Bourbons and took the throne.
By other side, Spain didn´t lost the control over the American Dominions... as it was evidenced by the victories in River Plate (1806 and 1807). It was the Peninsular War who brought the American mainland independence.. after a long war... between 1810 to 1830.
So... without war in Spain... we don´t know what would the future have been like? I guess maybe America would have been independent in 19th Century or maybe in 20th.... how knows...it is not possible to think about....
But the British Army failed in River Plate in 1806 and 1807 and USA agent Francisco de Miranda failed in Venezuela in 1806.. evidenced America (better to say the Spanish West Indies and mainland) were not ready to become independence... it was the Peninsular War and the absence of a legitime king on the Spanish throne since 1492 ... which led to an unthinkable independence even in 1808. (Miiranda will die in a Spanish jail in Cadis in 1816).
 
Apr 2019
13
On my horse.
#88
But the British Army failed in River Plate in 1806 and 1807 and USA agent Francisco de Miranda failed in Venezuela in 1806.. evidenced America (better to say the Spanish West Indies and mainland) were not ready to become independence... it was the Peninsular War and the absence of a legitime king on the Spanish throne since 1492 ... which led to an unthinkable independence even in 1808. (Miiranda will die in a Spanish jail in Cadis in 1816).
Which benefits did Spain get by being a French ally ?
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
4,878
Portugal
#89
Which benefits did Spain get by being a French ally ?
At least there was some expectations of gaining Portuguese territories, both in the Iberian Peninsula and overseas. By the way, Spain gained the fortress of Olivença/Olivenza in the War of the Oranges in 1801, and provided forces for the occupation of Portugal during the first French Invasion, in 1807.
 
Nov 2010
7,404
Cornwall
#90
France was not an ally. Of course. But in the minds of the Anglo-Portuguese neither were the people in Badajoz.

You're not really understanding the common soldier mentality.



At least there was some expectations of gaining Portuguese territories, both in the Iberian Peninsula and overseas. By the way, Spain gained the fortress of Olivença/Olivenza in the War of the Oranges in 1801, .
Blimey don't get Latino started again :)
 
Likes: martin76