People who rose from very humble beginnings.

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
5,882
#42
Cardinal Wolsey was the son of a butcher who became clearly the second richest and most powerful man in England before his fall. Probably many popes and cardinals were from ordinary backgrounds.

Captain Morgan the privateer's background in Wales in unknown. He may have been sent to the West Indies as a convict indentured servant like most of his crew.

Henry VII of England was a member of the gentry who led a revolt. Cronwell was also gentry. Napoleon was an ordinary officer, promoted under Revolutionary approaches based on merit rather than background, who made himself Emperor.

Franklin started out as a printer and became wealthy in publishing. He was lower middle class, as was Hamilton. Most founding fathers were wealthy and from nice family.

Lincoln grew up poor in rural Kentucky. President Andrew Johnson started out as a tailor and was taught to read and write by his wife.

General Stonewall Jackson was appointed to West Point after the original appointee by his Congressman left West Point after a day or two. The only formal schooling in Virginia was private, and he had no formal education. The district was poor in what is now West Virginia.

The father of independence leader Bernardo O'Higgins, Ambrose O'Higgins, the Viceroy of Peru, was the son of peasants. However, he was descended from arisocracy who lost their lands for supporting the "legitimate" kings of England and Ireland.

Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Mao, etc. were from ordinary backgrounds, as were most French Revolutionary leaders. In the 20th century, there are so many leaders from humble backgrounds there would be no point listing them.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,497
#43
C Napoleon was an ordinary officer, promoted under Revolutionary approaches based on merit rather than background, who made himself Emperor.
Napoleon rise to the command of the Arm of Itlay was due to political influence. In th amry of Itlay his divsiosn ocmmanders were bteter experinced and more qualfied on merit.

Napoleon had almost no command experience, at all. there were many officers who had successfully commanded divisions in battle and had real experience in teh war.
 
Feb 2019
145
Thrace
#44
Chandragupta Maurya. Born in a humble family, orphaned and abandoned, and raised as a son by another pastoral family, he built one of the largest empires ever on the Indian subcontinent.

Spartacus, rose from the status of a mere slave to a major threat of the greatest empire in the World.
 
Likes: Hoosierhiver
Feb 2019
145
Thrace
#45
Among Roman Emperors, I think Pertinax and Aurelian weren't mentioned. And they were excellent emperors as well, albeit short lived.

Emperor Wu of Liu Song also allegedly came from humble origins.

Muhammad started relatively low.

Abd al-Rahman I, all though born a prince, he actually reached rock-bottom at a point during his life. Maybe he counts.(if that's the case, Greek general Alcibiades also was a real life phoenix)

Baibars was sold into slavery, and bounced back to become Sultan of Egypt, and one of the greatest military leaders of his century.

That's all I can think of right now not mentioned yet.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
15,582
SoCal
#46
Well studies have shown the reverse is true that people somewhat unconsciously discriminate against women and blacks for example. That identical resumes with female or black sounding names do much worse at getting interviews. And this can be independent of the gender of the people reading he resume. And some studies show that organizations with "pro diversity" Rhetoric do not perform any better. Do a search there's been a fair few studeis in these area,.

Study shows gender bias in science is real. Here's why it matters.
Minorities Who 'Whiten' Job Resumes Get More Interviews

Almost everyone I know who works in computing (I'm a computer geek) gets jobs through networking for the overwhelming majority of their jobs.

So regardless of informal or formal processes minorities are at a disadvantage.
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Interesting information.

Anyway, have you considered the possibility that, as a result of affirmative action, some employers might tend to discount the achievements of Blacks and Hispanics? For instance, an employer might see that a Black or Hispanic applicant has an Ivy League degree but also fear that they only got into the Ivy League as a result of lower standards and thus be less inclined to hire them in comparison to a White or Asian person with the same achievements (such as being an Ivy League grad). At least, it's a plausible hypothesis.

In this regard, one could argue that affirmative action hurts members of minority groups who would have still gotten where they are even in a completely meritocratic system. After all, a lot of people might still view such people as being beneficiaries of affirmative action and thus being less qualified than they actually are. :(
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,497
#47
Interesting information.

Anyway, have you considered the possibility that, as a result of affirmative action, some employers might tend to discount the achievements of Blacks and Hispanics? For instance, an employer might see that a Black or Hispanic applicant has an Ivy League degree but also fear that they only got into the Ivy League as a result of lower standards and thus be less inclined to hire them in comparison to a White or Asian person with the same achievements (such as being an Ivy League grad). At least, it's a plausible hypothesis.

In this regard, one could argue that affirmative action hurts members of minority groups who would have still gotten where they are even in a completely meritocratic system. After all, a lot of people might still view such people as being beneficiaries of affirmative action and thus being less qualified than they actually are. :(
Well my repsonse is that is what they say but they are just looking for an excuse for dcisriination.

They are also sayng that everything comes down to opptbunty, Graduating, Studying getting the qualification means next to nothing, it's how you got into the ocurse that mattered,
 
Oct 2010
8,497
#48
furthermore

They are also saying that everything comes down to opportunity, Graduating, Studying getting the qualification means next to nothing, it's how you got into the course that mattered, Is this an education system or qualification system for life long privileges, why are so many wealthy parents paying a fortune to get into a "good " colleges by hook or crook if they did not believe there was a payoff regardless of high school achievement? Isnt this all saying that the college higher education system in not Meirt based? thats getting in Merit or not thats matters? Is high school any more Meirit based as a system?


People from privileged background can be siad to have advantages in eductaion, books in the home,private tutors, better teachers, not having to work long hours in crappy jobs to pay your way whiel studying there are all sorts of swings and roundabouts, being form low income or minority does not always mean massive advantage and being from wealthy privileged background does noyt always mean advantage.

Look this stuff is not simple and any given measure will have unintended consequences, I'm not sure about affirmative action but I can see why it exists,

There is no completely meritocratic system.
 
Likes: Futurist

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