Phoenicianism and history

Jul 2017
842
Crete
#21
SESOSTRIS resembles the throne name of DARIUS I

Setut Ra



Herodotus 2.103
He (Sesostris) marched over the country doing this until he had crossed over from Asia to Europe and defeated the Scythians and Thracians. From there, he turned around and went back home; and when he came to the Phasis river (Colchis), that King, Sesostris, may have detached some part of his army and left it there to live in the country

This is clearly based on the European-Scythian campaign of DARIUS I in 513 BCE and the Scythian ruler at that time was Idanthyrsus , the son of Saulaces .

Pliny Natural History
Saulaces, the descendant of Aeëtes, had reigned in Colchis, who, on finding a tract of virgin earth, in the country of the Suani, extracted from it a large amount of gold and silver, it is said, and whose kingdom besides, had been famed for the possession of the Golden Fleece. The golden arches, too, of his palace, we find spoken of, the silver supports and columns, and pilasters, all of which he had come into possession of on the conquest of Sesostris, king of Egypt


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Scythian_campaign_of_Darius_I
Achaemenid Empire ( and Ionian Allies)
 
Jul 2017
842
Crete
#22
Herodotus 2.159
Necos, then, stopped work on the canal and engaged in preparations for war; some of his ships of war were built on the northern sea, and some in the Arabian Gulf, by the Red Sea coast He used these ships when needed, and with his land army met and defeated the Syrians at Magdolus, taking the great Syrian city of Cadytis after the battle. [3] He sent to Branchidae of Miletus and dedicated there to Apollo the garments in which he won these victories. Then he died after a reign of sixteen years

Battle of Kadesh II
 
Jul 2017
842
Crete
#23
-WIKI
1. Necho also formed an Egyptian navy by recruiting displaced Ionian Greeks, The navy which Necho created operated along both the Mediterranean and Red Sea coasts.

2. Necho founded a new city of Per-Temu Tjeku which translates as 'The House of Atum of Tjeku' about 15 km west of Ismailia.
The waterway was intended to facilitate trade between the Mediterranean Sea and the Indian Ocean

Herodotus 4:42 - Necho sent Phoenicians in ships

Phoenicians & Ionians are the same people.

In the story of the Exodus it mentions Pithom (built by Necho) and the crossing of the Red
Sea , so the Canal was already built or being built during the Exodus?

Herodotus 7:89 (Exodus)
Phoenicians(Ionians) formerly dwelt as they themselves say, by the Red Sea; they crossed from there and now inhabit the seacoast of Syria.

IONIAN Greeks revolt against Egypt and escape through the Red Sea and settled in Syria.
 
Jul 2017
842
Crete
#24
They were two places called Carthage, the other is Chalcedon in Bithynia

The Greek name of the ancient town is from its Phoenician name (Karkhēdōn), meaning "New Town", as is the name of Carthage, Phoenicians were active traders in this area.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalcedon

The word -khēdōn is Greek from κτίζων "of a city, found, build, new, bring into being + Kark- = Γραικός.
Greek Word Study Tool

Γραικός (𐤒𐤓𐤕) + κτίσας (𐤇𐤃𐤔𐤕)
 
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Jul 2017
842
Crete
#25
Herodotus 7:89
Phoenicians formerly dwelt as they themselves say, by the Red Sea; they crossed from there and now inhabit the seacoast of Syria.


Raid by the Ionians (ia-u-na-a-a) on the Syrian coast is reported to Tiglath-Pileser III
saao/saa19

Sargon's Annals for 709, claiming that tribute was sent to him by 'seven kings of Ya (ya-a'), a district of Yadnana whose distant abodes are situated a seven-days' journey in the sea of the setting sun', is confirmed by a stele set up at Citium in Cyprus 'at the base of a mountain ravine ... of Yadnana.'
Translation of the Annals of Sargon of Accad and Naram-Sin | Mesopotamian Gods & Kings


Phoenicians and Ionians are the same people.
 
May 2017
219
Italy
#26
OK. I understand the reference now. Thanks.

Ethiopia is a long way from the 1st cataract. Like about another 800 miles, but it's in the right direction. Elephantine is a lot closer to the border of Kush, which had on-again/off-again battles with Egypt. Herodotus probably confused countries (again).

What surprised me was the implication that there was a center of Phoenician culture at Elphantine. There was a guard post. That's not the same.



That last line is confusing. It implies "Phoenician" isn't any kind of ethnicity ... you're saying it's a category like "businessman?" There *WAS* a Phoenician empire ... it's height was 1200-800 BCE. What are you saying here? You lost me.

Elpidios the Greek scholar decides to get into the wine business. That changes his nationality to "Phoenician"? That doesn't sound right.
There was never a Phoenician empire, there was only the Carthaginian empire, a Phoenician city (Carthage) that grew into an empire around the late 6th century bc, the other Western Phoenician emporiums which grew into cities were not part of an empire but autonomous entities, and in cases like Sardinia and probably Iberia most of the inhabitants would have been locals. As for the date that you propose (1200-800 bc) that's also incorrect, the Phoenicians only started settling in the Western Mediterranean around 850-780 bc, ater having colonized part of Cyprus around 900-850 bc and they probably reached places like Sardinia and Iberia thanks to Cypriot pilots, since Cypriots had already established lasting relationships with those places (especially Sardinia). in 1200 bc the Phoenicians were still under the Egyptian yoke, and as I said they only started expanding westward around 900-850 bc. Don't be fooled by the date of the foundation of Cadiz that you'll find on the internet (1100 bc) that's not substantiated by anything, only by ancient greek legends, archaeology has long since trashed that hypothesis, the first traces of Phoenician presence in Iberia (or anywhere west of Cyprus) only date back to the second half of the 9th century bc, Cadiz obviously included, and if anything Huelva west of Cadiz seem to have been visited by the Phoenicians a little earlier than Cadiz.
 
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Jul 2017
842
Crete
#27
The word Empire came from ἔμφορος meaning 'Profitable or productive ' and μλχ means Merx 'Merchant' and an Ancient Empire is defined by it's trade-routes.




 
May 2017
219
Italy
#28
Regardless of the fact that the etymology that you proposed for the word empire is incorrect, as the name empire ultimately originates from the latin verb impero (to command), not from the greek word for emporium, you're still missing the point, the phoenician towns in the East were never part of an unified empire but they were in competition if anything, those in the West were autonomous entities until Carthage conquered them with force, for instance the Phoenician towns in the South West coast of Sardinia were burned down around the late 6th century bc and subsequently occupied by Carthage, as the archaeologists excavating the sites confirmed, and the ancient authors also state that during that exact period Carthage conquered the island with force, it wasn't a spontaneous coalition of western phoenician cities but more like cities conquered with force by Carthage, it was the carthaginian empire, not the phoenician empire, and the phoenician towns in the Levant or Cyprus were not a part of it.
 
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Jul 2017
842
Crete
#29
When i was studying the Septuagint, for the Old Testament is a source of Phoenician History
and i found the word Καρχηδόνα which means "Carthage".

The people who study the Bible are Anti-history theologians and don't understand that that Hebrew IS the Phoenician Language and only
they had the skill and knowledge to write it, Old Testament is Phoenician mythology and history.

Isaiah 23:1
The burden of Tyre. Howl, ye ships of Carthage; for it is laid waste, so that there is no house, no entering in: from the land of Chittim it is revealed to them.

Eze 27:12
Carthage was thy merchant by reason of the multitude of all kind of riches; with silver, iron, tin, and lead, they traded in thy fairs.

1 Kings 10:22 ( Solomon & Carthage are contemporary)
Since in three years came the navy of Carthage bringing gold, and silver, ivory, and apes, and peacocks.

2 Chronicles 9:21
king's ships went to Carthage with the servants of Huram: every three years once came the ships of Carthage bringing gold, and silver, ivory, and apes, and peacocks.

Inventory
1. Gold
2. Silver
3. Ivory
4. Apes
5. Monkeys, Peacocks
6. Tin.
7. Lead

Aristotle - History of Animals , Book II Part 8
Some animals share the properties of man and the quadrupeds, as the ape(Kebos), the monkey(Pithkon)

קוֹף = κῆβος (Kebos) "Ape" ( without a tail)
ותכיים = πιθήκων ( Pithkon) "Monkey/Peacock" ( with a tail)

Carthage also sent caravans into the interior of Africa and Persia. It traded its manufactured and agricultural goods to the coastal and interior peoples of Africa for salt, gold, timber, ivory, ebony, apes, peacocks, skins, and hides.
 
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