- Apr 2018
- Upland, Sweden
True. Although not to be crass, probably some of the very poorest (i.e. not even enough money to emigrate) Ostjuden died during World War 2.The poverty of the Ostjuden is a thing of the past by now, though. AFAIK most US Jews were poor when they came here from Eastern Europe but are now one of the wealthiest groups in the US. The same should happen to Ostjuden in this scenario. After all, they are, on average, very smart and talented and thus they should gradually be able to lift themselves out of poverty and into the middle-class or higher if they will have the necessary opportunities to do so.
Yes, you are right. If both those conditions would have been met I can see assimilation working out. A German WW1 victory might actually lead to that.How ironic considering that the Jews were already the most Germanized people in Eastern Europe other than the Germans themselves! If Germans could only see this, and if the Ostjuden would have refrained from doing stupid things such as supporting Communists, then one would hope that Germany would experience a gradual rise in toleration for Jews like the US experienced during the 20th century in real life.
Probably, although it could be argued that the British especially the previous generations of British had little to no interest to allowing such a big Germany come into being in the first place, even if that Germany would become a status quo power as you suggest I am not sure the British would just sit there and accept it. Perhaps they would though, if they are defeated in WW1...Whether or not WWII occurs in this scenario doesn't matter as long as Germany will win it--and it would probably have an excellent chance to do so in this scenario. After all, Germany in this scenario is going to be a status quo power rather than rabidly expansionist (considering that its WWI victory would have already secured a lot of puppet states for it--thus ensuring that Germany will be satisfied and content for a very long time) and thus is probably going to be less likely to provoke large-scale British and American ire and anger.
Another thing I've been thinking of: Do you think the Germans would have won, or at least secured a white peace with the West where they control the territories they won at Brest-Litovsk without US intervention in World War 1?
Agreed, this seems like a solid and convincing point.Yeah, I mean, Germany could get ethnic Germans from Eastern Europe to help administer its Eastern European puppet states. That said, though, a wider base of support would probably be a good idea--and Eastern European cities and towns were full of essentially German-speaking Jews. (Yiddish is essentially German with Hebrew letters. Surely having Jews learn the Latin alphabet if they have not done so already is not too much to ask for!)
This could work actually. I almost feel moved now in a way, the world you describe seem to have a lot speaking in its advantage...Yeah, that does seem like a good idea--both because it would help facilitate Germanization in Eastern Europe and because it is going to give Jews an attractive option. Basically, Germany would essentially be telling the Jews something like this: "Work with us and you'll live very well. Don't work with us, and we could encourage anti-Semitism among Eastern European locals to shift Eastern European anger against us and towards you! Make your choice!"
Also, such a move on Germany's part might reduce revolutionary activity and as well as reduce support for things such as Communism among Eastern European Jews--which would certainly be a great thing considering that Communism was and is a malignant cancer!
Probably in some cases, although I think it might often be a more recent phenomenon (1600-1700s). There was a lot of back and forth of geographic Prussia between the various Germanic kingdoms or states and Poland, with it only "finally" becoming part of Brandenburg in the mid 1600s if I'm not mistaken.Yeah, this probably isn't that surprising. My guess is that a large number of Slavs ended up being Germanized in the centuries after the Ostsiedlung--hence the possibility of Germans with Slavic last names. Of course, this Germanization probably occurred before mass literacy became a reality; after mass literacy became a reality, Germanizing Eastern Europeans (other than the Jews) would have probably become much harder since the Eastern European peoples would have already developed a national consciousness of their own by that point in time.
Otherwise agreed, more or less. It probably would have been easier to assimilate the aristocracy also in some ways: Europe east of the Elbe was historically very feudal, with serfdom being abolished very late. The ties between for example a Polish lord and his peasants do not seem to have been that intimate and friendly.