Poll : Wellington vs Montgomery , which was better ?

Which British general was better ? Wellington or Montgomery ?

  • Duke of Wellington

    Votes: 33 80.5%
  • Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery

    Votes: 8 19.5%

  • Total voters
    41
Jan 2015
3,363
Front Lines of the Pig War
#61
I'm not sure any other general could have done what Wellington did in the Peninsular campaign. Would Wellington have performed better in Market Garden? I would like to think so. Monty is not a bad general by any means, but not in the same league as the Duke. You can only really compare them properly with their contemporaries; one was the best commander of his generation whilst the other wasn't.
Monty was one of the few Allied Generals who never lost a major battle that he commanded.
Could Monty have secured the Rhine crossing in Market Garden? He almost certainly would have - had he actually been put in charge of the operation! (For the record, Monty commanded "Garden" but not "Market")

The failure to secure & hold the Arnhem bridge during Market Garden was due the man who (properly) admitted responsibility for it - one Dwight D Eisehower.
 
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Sep 2016
1,217
Georgia
#62
I don't think Wellington would ever let himself be in a position where he might face Russia, Austria and Prussia. Looking to his record in India, where he held substantially more influence on policy due to his brother being Governor General, Wellesley was always careful to manage his Indian allies carefully, and frequently advocated against actions which might lead to a "Russia-Austria-Prussia Coalition" forming against him.
You can't compare those two cases. France was danger to other European countries even without Napoleon in charge.

France conquered Austrian Netherlands, destroyed Dutch Republic, took Piedmont and created 2 puppet states in Northern Italy before Napoleon became a Consul.
French were also planning expedition to Ireland in 1796. Later, French would still support Irish rebellion of 1798.

France destroyed previous balance of power in Europe and sooner or later would face another Coalition.

In terms of crushing Russia, Wellington had great strategic, diplomatic and political sense enough that he would have either found a diplomatic solution to the issue, or he would have taken wiser courses of action in the campaign (such as those suggested to Napoleon by Davout). Wellington knew that to suffer even one significant defeat would mean the loss of the British army as well as a loss of support for the war in Parliament. And for that matter, Napoleon didn't even crush Russia, Russia crushed him.
Wellington never had to face such a task like invasion of Russia in 1812. So whatever you said about his possible solutions is laughable.

Also, why did you mention that Russia crushed Napoleon ? Do you think I don't know that ?
 
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redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,783
Stockport Cheshire UK
#64
Monty was one of the few Allied Generals who never lost a major battle that he commanded.
Could Monty have secured the Rhine crossing in Market Garden? He almost certainly would have - had he actually been put in charge of the operation! (For the record, Monty commanded "Garden" but not "Market")

The failure to secure & hold the Arnhem bridge during Market Garden was due the man who (properly) admitted responsibility for it - one Dwight D Eisehower.
No. If we have to blame anyone it's Browning, he messed up the airborne operation.
 
Sep 2016
1,217
Georgia
#65
The FAILED Irish rebellion of which French support would amount to what? ...a regiment of convicts... possible the worst regiment ever in French service?
So what that it's failed ? That was not the point.

I also like how you ignored all other things that were done by France and their plans for Irish expedition in 1796.

What is your nationality, by the way ?
 
May 2018
815
Michigan
#66
Monty was one of the few Allied Generals who never lost a major battle that he commanded.
While that is an admirable accomplishment, it doesn't put him in a category above Wellington because he accomplished the same thing. Although possibly, Monty's failure in Market Garden could be similar to Wellesley's frustration in the Talavera campaign where General Cuesta's conduct was at best aloof incompetence or at worst, WWI "donkey" level performance.
 

Poly

Ad Honorem
Apr 2011
6,698
Georgia, USA
#68
How his success is unparalleled ?

You think Wellington would be able to defeat coalition of Russia, Austria and Prussia ? You think Wellington would be able to crush Russia in 1812 ?

Suvorov is undefeated, by the way.

Wellington wouldn't have attempted such an impossible task.

That is what I meant by him having superior strategic skill.

Who did Suvorov ever beat ?
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,356
#69
You think Wellington would be able to crush Russia in 1812 ?
.
he would not have bitchily advanced well beyond his supply lines. He mught not have crushed Russia in 1812, but he would not have thrown away 500,000 making egotistcally decions rather teh deal objectivity with the situation. he would not have broiught so large an army as being unable to siupply it. He could have bnacked himself in to win a more or less equal numbers contest with the Russians , who might well have been willing to risk battle with equal numbers. yes it's conceivable that Welington could have won in 1812. He certianly would no thave made the exact same mistakes as Napoleon, he was not prone to the same ones.
 
Likes: frogsofwar
May 2018
815
Michigan
#70
he would not have bitchily advanced well beyond his supply lines. He mught not have crushed Russia in 1812, but he would not have thrown away 500,000 making egotistcally decions rather teh deal objectivity with the situation. he would not have broiught so large an army as being unable to siupply it. He could have bnacked himself in to win a more or less equal numbers contest with the Russians , who might well have been willing to risk battle with equal numbers. yes it's conceivable that Welington could have won in 1812. He certianly would no thave made the exact same mistakes as Napoleon, he was not prone to the same ones.
Exactly. Napoleon's invasion was a blunder bigger than Balaclava, Isandlwana and the Elphinstone Expedition combined.

I seriously doubt that the cautious and thoughtful Wellington would have repeated Napoleon's mistakes. His worst blunder was at Sultantep Tope, as a young colonel, and about 30 people died, a trivial loss compared to the half a million soldiers Napoleon "heroically" led to their death.
 

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