Portugal vs. Spain: Who had the more dominant empire?

More dominant empire?

  • Spain

    Votes: 20 83.3%
  • Portugal

    Votes: 4 16.7%

  • Total voters
    24

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,664
Portugal
Agree that most western Iberian languages seem to lack that Basque influence, the more western, the less Basque. But that's not entirely correct: some very deep Basque words, or more accurately pre-Indoeuropean words, entered all Ibero-Romance languages, including Portuguese and Catalan (which is Gallo-Romance): for example, Esquerra, Esquerda, Izquierda, Ezker = Left

I'd love to write a LOT more on the issue, focusing on the very complex evolution of the Latin and Vasconic communities around the western Pyrenees in the late Antiquity, but I wanted to point that by now
I am unaware of many direct Basque influences on the Portuguese. Naturally the fact that I am unaware doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. But there is an ample pre-Latin substratum, but I don’t think that we can say that is Basque, like you say it is probably more correct to say that is pre-Indoeuropean.

As for the word “left” (ezker) you got a good one, you made me search in the dictionaries. The Latin Iberian languages all have that in common and is quite different from the French or the Italian (gauche, sinistra).

But, as far as I know, in the paper dictionaries that I look, the word came to the Portuguese trough the Castilian, and not directly from the Basque, as also pointed in the Portuguese language site “Ciberduvidas”: A etimologia da palavra esquerda - Ciberdúvidas da Língua Portuguesa

Anyway I would love to see you develop this theme about the influence of the Basque in other languages besides the Castilian, and the Aragonese, the two closest ones.
 
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
It's a very long story.



More or less. Don't forget Visigoths and technically, the Roman conquest interrupted the 'Celtisation' of Iberia, so don't forget those iberians. As Basques tended to stick 'up north' are they part of the 'blend'? Not sure

Muslims came from many places other than North Africa, mainly the middle east/Yemen, but of course the vast majority of what came to be Spanish muslims' were originally hispano-roman/Visigothic. In the south these were eliminated virtually and replaced with, ultimately, immigrants. Not so further north though, where the switch was more 'peaceful' over time
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I was listening to a Youtube video entitled The Decline of Al-Andalus and the Rise of the Kingdom of Leon. The video has me wondering, what, if any, are the historical differences between the Portuguese and the Spanish? Are they ethnically different, as in being derived from different groups or tribes?

...

Right friend, we are a different people. What is the language like?
Correcto amigo ,somos um pôvo diferente. Como é a lingua.
 
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
Spain's empire was far larger than Portugal's empire. Thus, I'm voting for Spain here.

This is reflected in the fact that much more people nowadays speak Spanish in comparison to Portuguese.
---
Muito Obrigado amigo .Todos sabem. Thank you very much, my friend. Everyone knows.

The totality of the population of Spain allowed this. Unlike Portugal, few people

Portugal can only say two things, they were the first and the Portuguese language is spoken in all the continents, like other languages of other countries Spanish French English, that followed in the footsteps of Portugal
 
Likes: Futurist

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,618
Spain
Any language that has its plurals ending in k is pretty weird.
Dear Linschoten.. the K is not a Vascuence word... it was added to Batua (an artificial language invented between 1968 and 1984)... So.. the plural in vascuence never ending in K.... before 1968-1984...
The famous video M. Jackson´s Thriller is older!!! and if we think in Rolling Stone or Beetles.... (The vascuence did plural in q). Euscadi was a word invented in 20th Century... never used in Vascuence language before.. as Euzkadi... still is younger... from 1968 onwards...

So nothing strange.. we can invented the Cornwall language and to order the plural is going to be in h.
 
Nov 2010
7,666
Cornwall
Dear Linschoten.. the K is not a Vascuence word... it was added to Batua (an artificial language invented between 1968 and 1984)... So.. the plural in vascuence never ending in K.... before 1968-1984...
The famous video M. Jackson´s Thriller is older!!! and if we think in Rolling Stone or Beetles.... (The vascuence did plural in q). Euscadi was a word invented in 20th Century... never used in Vascuence language before.. as Euzkadi... still is younger... from 1968 onwards...

So nothing strange.. we can invented the Cornwall language and to order the plural is going to be in h.
Funny you should say that Martin. 40 years ago one old lady, soon to pass away, spoke Cornish. Now because of this daft cultural resurgence thing people have nowadays in a few places, there's a few hundered, but most of the words are, often laughably, made up by current people who spend their time doing such things. Meanwhile we spend tens of thousands of pounds dualing road signs in a language nobody understands.

Is there any point in this madness, just making up words for 'Cornish'?
 
Likes: martin76
Jul 2009
9,944
Funny you should say that Martin. 40 years ago one old lady, soon to pass away, spoke Cornish. Now because of this daft cultural resurgence thing people have nowadays in a few places, there's a few hundered, but most of the words are, often laughably, made up by current people who spend their time doing such things. Meanwhile we spend tens of thousands of pounds dualing road signs in a language nobody understands.

Is there any point in this madness, just making up words for 'Cornish'?
Its politically correct. Not many people are familiar with etymology, and most don't care about that.
 
Last edited:

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,618
Spain
If tomorrow a Cornish totalitariam movement born in Cornwall it is going to be very easy to "discover" or to Invent the language as it happened with Batua in 1968-1984.. Batua (an artificial language invented in a "laboratory" years later Rolling Stone begun to play.. is killing the Vascuance... the historical language spoken from 3000 years!)