Portugal was a few days to recover Olivença

LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
In 1936 portugal was a few days of solving a problem that has long been trailing and recovering olivença.mas but we were betrayed by false promises of spain
In the context of the Spanish Civil War. Franco promised to pay back to olivença in exchange for the support of the Portuguese government to the war how to tell the republic instituted by elections ... 11 days before the date agreed, but the caudillo sent to nettles the Portuguese dictator invested against olivença the repression and the Death spill-over on the Olivent people for the serious crime of hoisting the Portuguese flag in the keep.
Mário Ferreira Never in the frontier negotiations between Portugal and Spain did they agree on the border in Olivença. That is why the Portuguese maps do not mark the border in Olivença. Portugal has on its side the International Law Treaty of Paris of 1814 and Congress of Vienna of 1817.which recognize Olivença as Portuguese territory so there will never be a border agreement was to send the nettles to the International Law.





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Ask does not offend but annoy » perguntar não ofende, mas chateia
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God created white and black the Portuguese created mulatto.
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Deus criou o branco e o preto os portugueses criaram o mulato.
 

johnincornwall

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,870
Cornwall
I know the border does hop around a bit but whilst it's on that side of the Guadiana you might struggle with your case!

I think El Generalissimo was a bit pre-occupied in 1936. He was a bit ruthless in getting what he wants.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,817
Spain
If you like to speak about Olivenza we ca do it.
As you and John speak Spanish...we can read Spanish sources.

First: Olivenza is inhabited by Portuguese...the same people now that in 1801 or in 1580 or in 1400. Lion conquered Olivenza to Moors in 1230.. the people from Olivenza are Portugueses feel Spanish and not portugueses... The people from Olivenza are named Oliventinos. All of them speak Spanish and Portuguese.

Here the historian oliventino: Luis Alfonso Limpo Piriz, he is Spanish from Olivenza (with his two surnames are Portuguese). He works in the Archives of Olivenza.
This historian from Olivenza and specialist in Olivenza, he says:

From the archive, it is change the vision about the history of Olivenza, people had 20 years ago, which was the story the Portuguese had written. There was a group called the Friends of Olivenza, who met in Lisbon and had written the history of Olivenza in the 40's and before. It was an ultranationalist history very biased with the thesis always that this was a land illegally occupied by Spain.

The article I linked it is very interesting. He speaks about Salazar, amigos de Olivenza organization, PIDE, Franco etc etc

And he says, Spain was decisive to defeat Napoleon. .however, the Spanish diplomacy was a nullity in the Congress of Vienna and the Portuguese Diplomacy was able to pass the Olivenza Issue...article 107th and Spain voted to get engaged to return Olivenza to Portugal but Portugal (that had invaded the Spanish Territories in Brazil in 1801, 1804 and 1806) must to return to Spain what today are the Brazilian states of Iguaçu, Santa Catarina, Rio Grande do Sul and Pampa. These territories belonged to Spain (not to Portugal) as the school boys learn in Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay and Argentina.
So, Spain decided to return Olivenza to Portugal when Portuguese return to Spain the territories occupied in Brazil.

Future?

I think it is difficult because population from Olivenza they don´t want to back to Portugal.. but if Portugal succeeds in pushig pression to Brazil and Brazil return to Spain Iguazú, Santa Catalina, Rio Grande del Sur y Pampa (ilegally occupied from 19th Century), I am sure, Spain return Olivenza to Portugal, and the Pppulation will continue being Spanish.

But the great issue is... Do you think Brazil is going to return the Spanish Territories to Spain?... I don´t think so....
 

Tairusiano

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
2,978
Brazil
And he says, Spain was decisive to defeat Napoleon. .however, the Spanish diplomacy was a nullity in the Congress of Vienna and the Portuguese Diplomacy was able to pass the Olivenza Issue...article 107th and Spain voted to get engaged to return Olivenza to Portugal but Portugal (that had invaded the Spanish Territories in Brazil in 1801, 1804 and 1806) must to return to Spain what today are the Brazilian states of Iguaçu, Santa Catarina, Rio Grande do Sul and Pampa. These territories belonged to Spain (not to Portugal) as the school boys learn in Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay and Argentina.
So, Spain decided to return Olivenza to Portugal when Portuguese return to Spain the territories occupied in Brazil.

Future?

I think it is difficult because population from Olivenza they don´t want to back to Portugal.. but if Portugal succeeds in pushig pression to Brazil and Brazil return to Spain Iguazú, Santa Catalina, Rio Grande del Sur y Pampa (ilegally occupied from 19th Century), I am sure, Spain return Olivenza to Portugal, and the Pppulation will continue being Spanish.

But the great issue is... Do you think Brazil is going to return the Spanish Territories to Spain?... I don´t think so....
Hello Martin
The States in Brazil are called Rio Grande do Sul and Santa Catarina and they are habited by Brazilians if it was Spanish lands in 1800 it is irrelevant, today it is Brazilian land. Lets not forget that it was Spain that attacked Portugual in 1801 in the War of Oranges, if they dont wanted to loose lands, maybe they should not start a war.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,817
Spain
Hello Martin
The States in Brazil are called Rio Grande do Sul and Santa Catarina and they are habited by Brazilians if it was Spanish lands in 1800 it is irrelevant, today it is Brazilian land. Lets not forget that it was Spain that attacked Portugual in 1801 in the War of Oranges, if they dont wanted to loose lands, maybe they should not start a war.

So, it also is irrelevant Olivenza...isn´t it? Olivenza is as Spanish as Santa Catarina is Brazilian...not more and not less.
That lands were occupied in 1816.. when Portugal and Spain were not in War.

What I want to say it is very clear: If Rio Grande do Sul is Brazilian... Olivenza is Spanish. And if Olivenza is not Spanish.. Rido Grade do Sul is no Brazilian.. because both issues are matched.
 

Tairusiano

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
2,978
Brazil
So, it also is irrelevant Olivenza...isn´t it? Olivenza is as Spanish as Santa Catarina is Brazilian...not more and not less.
That lands were occupied in 1816.. when Portugal and Spain were not in War.

What I want to say it is very clear: If Rio Grande do Sul is Brazilian... Olivenza is Spanish. And if Olivenza is not Spanish.. Rido Grade do Sul is no Brazilian.. because both issues are matched.
1801 martin like your spanish wiki said https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquista_portuguesa_de_las_Misiones_Orientales
1816 Portugal invaded Uruguay, not forgeting Uruguay is not a Brasilian State.

and I never said Olivenza is not Spanish, read again my text, but do you realy believe Brasil would give part of his land to Spain, for Spain to give Olivenza do Portugal and make Portugal happy, Portugal had until 1822 to give this land back and they dont gave back, but after Brazilian independece the game change and Brasil dont need to follow portuguese orders.
 

LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
If you like to talk about Olivenza we ca do it.
As you and John speak Spanish ... we can read Spanish sources.
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Hello martin 76, how do you like to call the portuguese from espanhois.first, I do not know who joão is second, I do not know how to speak spanish, and I do not know which Spanish language you speak, you speak 4 languages or more. If you are referring to my Spanish from pm that I sent you on santiado de compostela, glad that Google translated the Portuguese well into Spanish, I'm sorry that google does not translate Portuguese to English well. Third the Portuguese alphabet has 23 letters
The letter k exists only in the word kilo - kimlometro in Portuguese correct is written so kilometro the letter y does not exist in any word in Portuguese the letter w only exists in Portuguese bmw which is a German car brand.
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olá martin 76,como voçe gosta de chamar aos portugueses de espanhois.primeiro não sei quem é o joão segundo não sei falar espanhol ne sei qual a lingua espanhola se refere voçes falam 4 linguas ou mais. se voçe se refere ao meu espanhol da pm que lhe enviei sobre santiado de compostela,ainda bem que o google traduziu bem o portugues para o espanhol ,tenho pena de o google não traduir bem português para ingles. terceiro o abecedário portugues tem 23 letras
a letra k só existe na palavra kilo - kimlometro em português correcto se escreve assim quilometro a letra y não existe em palavra nenhuma em portugues a letra w só existe em português bmw que é uma marca alemã de automoveis.
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The first king of portugal died in the year 1185 but it was he who conquered olinvença to the moors.
o primeiro rei de portugal morreu no ano 1185 mas foi ele que conquistou olinvença aos mouros.
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a palavra bunda não é latina é africana das excolonias portuguesas só existe nos paises falam a lingua portuguesa.
o nome antonio não é latim é grego existe em todas linguas que falam neolatinas o nome manuel´é hebraico como tambem existe em galego basco castelhano aragonês catalão castelhano e português, como acontece as palavras de origem árabe latin etc.etc. agora me traduza a palavra BUNDA para o espanhol seija qual for a lingua espanhola bunda em português tem osmo significado é cu
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a palavra bunda não é latina é africana das excolonias portuguesas só existe nos paises que falam a lingua portuguesa.
o nome antonio não é latim é grego existe em todas linguas que falam neolatinas o nome manuel´é hebraico como tambem existe em galego basco castelhano aragonês catalão castelhano e português, como acontece as palavras de origem árabe latin etc.etc. agora me traduza a palavra BUNDA para o espanhol seija qual for a lingua espanhola bunda em português tem osmo significado é cu. ingles é ass [ ás em português é a carta maior dum baralho de cartas para jogar á sueca etc.)
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in portuguese foto ÁS »


IN inglesh ass portuguese cu.


The pronunciation is the same with almost equal writing with different meaning is just an example
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Friend martin76 go see how many French words have the Spanish languages, but also has my Portuguese language that has nothing to do with the Castilian language yes the Castilian language has a lot to do with the Italian language, do a good search in google, you said that I speak and write well Spanish I already answered you, but my friend martin76 did not mention what Spanish language, you know when a foreign tourist to me portugal if I speak Spanish, you know the answer I give you I do not speak Spanish I speak Portuguese and I, as a Portuguese, do not know which Spanish language the foreigner speaks to are more than 4 languages spoken in Spain. Now I tell you I'm martin 76 you speak Portuguese well and speak Portuguese well between coarse you lack the acute and serious seats in the vowels but it gave to understand but it was through google in the translation that e wrote well portugues.
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On the Uruguayan country was Portuguese territory, and the name of the capital of uruguay is Portuguese is not Spanish Castilian MONTE VI US Any citizen of Uruguay as a Brazilian knows that the name is Portuguese translated into Spanish Spanish. Because the wars that portugal had with castles in the South America was for the Castilians did not steal lands to Brazil, here in portugal with the war of the oranges the Castilians annexed us to olivença, it will remain in the history friend martin76 we are Latin Iberian peoples etc. etc. But we are not the same.
Is please do not call Spaniards to the Portuguese from the river douro to the algarve my portugal was conquered to the Moors in 1267 portucalense was complete from the river minho the evil of the first king of portugal was give annex to galiza when he had it In the hands, martin 76 me na minto vé var the story.
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sobre o país uruguai foi território portugues,e o nome da capital do uruguai é portugues não é espanhol castelhano MONTE VI EU Qualquer cidadão do uruguai como brasileiro sabe disso o nome é portugues traduzido para castelhano espanhol. pois a guerras que portugal teve com castelas na américado sul foi para os castelhanos não roubarem terras ao brasil ,aqui em portugal com a guerra das laranjas os castelhanos nos anexaram a olivença,iss ficará na história amigo martin76 somos povos ibéricos latinos etc. etc. mas não somos iguais.
é por favor não chame espanhois aos portugueses a partir do rio douro até ao algarve o meu portugal foi conquistado aos mouros,em 1267 portucalense estava completo a partir do rio minho o mal do primeiro rei de portugal foi dão anexar a galiza quando ele a teve nas mãos,martin 76 eu na minto vé var a história.
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The true history all the united kings of the so-called Spain that was called from the year 1575 or 76 before and after with their battles against portugal portucalense never succeeded in connecting, after the death of the king of portugal king. D. Sebastião in 1578 in the alcaçer bank quibir was young and had no inheritors the filipes of Castilian grandson of the king of portugal d joão Manuel and that he hears the union portugal castela of 1580 to 1640.
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The languages were different portugues like very ass, in Castilian qm 1580 until 2017 do not know how to say butt in Castilian.
The languages were different portugues like very ass, in Castilian qm 1580 until 2017 do not know how to say butt in Castilian for centuries.
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Martin 76 admits the truth of the history portugal was the first empire second empire was the spain castile third empire was the inglaterra.depois portugal and spain was overtaken by england to be the greatest empire in the world but with the thanks to the infant gift henrique the navigator from Portugal.
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martin 76 admite a verdade da história portugal foi o primeiro império segundo império foi a espanha castela terceiro império foi a inglaterra.depois portugal e a espanha foi ultrapassado pela inglaterra a ser o maior império do mundo mas com o agradecimento ao infante dom henrique o navegador de portugal.



















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The story is made by men.
But many men only know how to lie about the true story.
What will be the interest?
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quem faz a história são os homens.
mas muitos homens só sabem mentir sobre a história verdadeira.
qual será o interesse?
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,817
Spain
1801 martin like your spanish wiki said https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquista_portuguesa_de_las_Misiones_Orientales
1816 Portugal invaded Uruguay, not forgeting Uruguay is not a Brasilian State.

and I never said Olivenza is not Spanish, read again my text, but do you realy believe Brasil would give part of his land to Spain, for Spain to give Olivenza do Portugal and make Portugal happy, Portugal had until 1822 to give this land back and they dont gave back, but after Brazilian independece the game change and Brasil dont need to follow portuguese orders.

No, Tairusiano,

What I say it is Olivenza is Spanish and Rio Grande del Sur is Brazilian... and if Olivenza is Portuguese, Rio Grande do Sul is Spanish... and Spain didn´t return Olivenza because Portugal had to return Rio Grande (and the others States).. and for me, in 2017, Olivenza is Spanish and Rio Grande is Brazilian.

regards.
 

LatinoEuropa

Ad Honorem
Oct 2015
5,222
Matosinhos Portugal
If you like to speak about Olivenza we ca do it.
As you and John speak Spanish...we can read Spanish sources.

First: Olivenza is inhabited by Portuguese...the same people now that in 1801 or in 1580 or in 1400. Lion conquered Olivenza to Moors in 1230.. the people from Olivenza are Portugueses feel Spanish and not portugueses... The people from Olivenza are named Oliventinos. All of them speak Spanish and Portuguese.

Here the historian oliventino: Luis Alfonso Limpo Piriz, he is Spanish from Olivenza (with his two surnames are Portuguese). He works in the Archives of Olivenza.
This historian from Olivenza and specialist in Olivenza, he says:

From the archive, it is change the vision about the history of Olivenza, people had 20 years ago, which was the story the Portuguese had written. There was a group called the Friends of Olivenza, who met in Lisbon and had written the history of Olivenza in the 40's and before. It was an ultranationalist history very biased with the thesis always that this was a land illegally occupied by Spain.

The article I linked it is very interesting. He speaks about Salazar, amigos de Olivenza organization, PIDE, Franco etc etc

And he says, Spain was decisive to defeat Napoleon. .however, the Spanish diplomacy was a nullity in the Congress of Vienna and the Portuguese Diplomacy was able to pass the Olivenza Issue...article 107th and Spain voted to get engaged to return Olivenza to Portugal but Portugal (that had invaded the Spanish Territories in Brazil in 1801, 1804 and 1806) must to return to Spain what today are the Brazilian states of Iguaçu, Santa Catarina, Rio Grande do Sul and Pampa. These territories belonged to Spain (not to Portugal) as the school boys learn in Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay and Argentina.
So, Spain decided to return Olivenza to Portugal when Portuguese return to Spain the territories occupied in Brazil.

Future?

I think it is difficult because population from Olivenza they don´t want to back to Portugal.. but if Portugal succeeds in pushig pression to Brazil and Brazil return to Spain Iguazú, Santa Catalina, Rio Grande del Sur y Pampa (ilegally occupied from 19th Century), I am sure, Spain return Olivenza to Portugal, and the Pppulation will continue being Spanish.

But the great issue is... Do you think Brazil is going to return the Spanish Territories to Spain?... I don´t think so....
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Lion conquered Olivenza to the Moors in 1230
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I will transcribe here the brief History of Olivenza.

MS 1212
The Portuguese Templars reconquered the Moors the Olivença Fields, in them having, from the outset, built the Castle and Church (the one of Santa Maria of the Castle) and a Population.
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Olivença is Portugal. 2620 likes · 11 talk about it. In 1817 Spain recognized the Portuguese sovereignty underwriting the Congress of Vienna of 1815, ...

Olivença é Portugal. 2620 gostos · 11 falam sobre isto. Em 1817 a Espanha reconheceu a soberania portuguesa subscrevendo o Congresso de Viena de 1815
 
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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
6,148
Portugal
Latino,

What is the point here?

As a side question: Have you already went to Olivença/Olivenza?