Post World War I Territorial Gains for Germany in a No-Nazi-Germany Scenario?

Futurist

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May 2014
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Let's say that, for some reason, Nazi Germany is never created (perhaps Hitler gets killed in 1923, and/or et cetera). Without Nazi Germany ever being created, which territories would Germany have been likely to eventually gain or regain?

As for me, I think that eventual German acquisition or reacquisition of Danzig and Austria is very likely in this scenario. Both of these areas were majority ethnically German, and neither of them were a part of any other country. In addition, Poland built a new port for it at Gdynia, which meant that it would be less dependent on Danzig over time and thus be more willing to agree to eventually give Danzig back to Germany. I also think that there is a decent chance for Germany to reacquire Eupen and Malmedy (in part or in full) as well as the Memel (in part or in full) in this scenario; both of these areas were small (area-wise) and had many ethnic Germans, and thus, Belgium and Lithuania might be willing to give some or all of these areas back to Germany (I think that Memel might be more likely to be partitioned (south Memel to Germany, Lithuania keeps north Memel) than to have all of it be given to Germany since Lithuania would not want to become almost landlocked). In regards to the Sudetenland and South Tyrol, I don't see Czechoslovakia and/or Italy voluntarily giving up these areas due to the fact that these territories were perceived as being very important to these countries for defensive/strategic reasons (due to their mountainous terrain, et cetera). Also, I don't think that a non-Nazi Germany could pull off a Munich-1938 type of deal over one or both of these areas due to the fact that Britain and France will be less scared of Germany in this TL. Anyway, I don't see Germany ever acquiring the Sudetenland or South Tyrol in this scenario unless Czechoslovakia and/or Italy experiences Ukraine-2014 style unrest, in which case Germany might try quickly grabbing and annexing these areas (or in the case of South Tyrol, only the parts of it which still have an ethnic German majority). In addition, I don't see Germany ever reacquiring Posen (solidly majority-Polish), eastern Upper Silesia (a majority of the vote in favour of Poland in a 1921 plebiscite), North Schlewsig (a majority of the vote in favour of Denmark in a 1920 plebiscite), and/or Alsace-Lorraine (Hell would need to freeze over before France voluntarily gives it back to Germany) in this scenario.

Thoughts on this?
 
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Futurist

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May 2014
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To summarize:

In this scenario:

Very likely eventual territorial acquisitions or re-acquisitions for Germany: Danzig, Austria
Somewhat likely eventual territorial re-acquisitions for Germany: Eupen and Malmedy (in part or in full), Memel (in part or in full)
Unlikely eventual territorial acquisitions for Germany: The Sudetenland (in part or in full), South Tyrol (in part or in full)
Extremely unlikely eventual territorial re-acquisitions for Germany: Posen, eastern Upper Silesia, North Schlewsig, Alsace-Lorraine
 
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GogLais

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Sep 2013
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I don't see how Germany is going to get these territories back without a very aggressive foreign policy backed up by military force, whether that's Nazi or under some other name.
 

Futurist

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May 2014
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I don't see how Germany is going to get these territories back without a very aggressive foreign policy backed up by military force, whether that's Nazi or under some other name.
Danzig, Austria, Eupen and Malmedy (in part or in full), and the Memel (in part or in full) might eventually be possible for Germany to acquire or re-acquire through diplomacy and plebiscites. (Yes, Britain and France went to war in 1939 over Danzig, but Hitler made a lot of demands very quickly; if Germany would have made demands at a less rapid pace, then I am suspecting that Britain and France would have eventually let Germany reacquire Danzig.)

As a side note, Belgium actually did offer to sell Eupen and Malmedy back to Germany in 1926, but France blocked these negotiations. Of course, this was less than a decade after World War I, when memories of this war were still extremely fresh in most people's minds.
 
Sep 2008
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The remarkable thing is that even if Germany had made absolutely no territorial gains whatsoever after 1923, that would still leave the country in a far larger and better situation than it is today.

If they had somehow avoided world war 2, and stayed peaceful, they would not have had their cities bombed into rubble, not have lost extensive territories including the whole of Prussia, not have lost Silesia and Breslau, not have suffered 5.5 million men killed in war and millions more civilians, and they would have avoided being occupied by the Soviets, avoided the Berlin wall, and avoided the Stasi oppression.

The dolchstosselegende "stab in the back" legend and rise of the Nazis really was a disaster for Germany. For the record, the word "Nazi" is a German word that means "Stupid" or "simple minded", and it was used by those Germans who did not agree with Nazism as an insult against its supporters.
 

WeisSaul

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Mar 2012
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Danzig, Eupen-Melmedy, Sudetenland,
Austria, Memel, and an extraterritorial road linking Pomerania to East Prussia. If Yugoslavia falls apart (likely considering Croat Movements towards independence and Italian irridentism) maybe Germany and Italy would partition Slovenia.

Perhaps the country could get one of its colonies back somehow.
 
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Futurist

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May 2014
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Danzig, Eupen-Melmedy, Sudetenland,
Austria, Memel, and an extraterritorial road linking Pomerania to East Prussia. If Yugoslavia falls apart (likely considering Croat Movements towards independence and Italian irridentism) maybe Germany and Italy would partition Slovenia.

Perhaps the country could get one of its colonies back somehow.
I agree with all of this other than for the Sudetenland. Without a scary, threatening Nazi-led German government, I seriously doubt that Britain and France would have agreed to give the Sudetenland to Germany even if Germany would have asked for it. In my opinion, the only way for Germany to have acquired the Sudetenland was if massive civil unrest or a civil war occurs in Czechoslovakia; during this time, Germany might be able to seize the Sudetenland in a Putin-2014-Crimea style if it wants to do this.
 

Futurist

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May 2014
22,302
SoCal
The remarkable thing is that even if Germany had made absolutely no territorial gains whatsoever after 1923, that would still leave the country in a far larger and better situation than it is today.

If they had somehow avoided world war 2, and stayed peaceful, they would not have had their cities bombed into rubble, not have lost extensive territories including the whole of Prussia, not have lost Silesia and Breslau, not have suffered 5.5 million men killed in war and millions more civilians, and they would have avoided being occupied by the Soviets, avoided the Berlin wall, and avoided the Stasi oppression.

The dolchstosselegende "stab in the back" legend and rise of the Nazis really was a disaster for Germany. For the record, the word "Nazi" is a German word that means "Stupid" or "simple minded", and it was used by those Germans who did not agree with Nazism as an insult against its supporters.
I don't think that anyone here is disputing that Germany would have probably been better off without Hitler and the Nazis ever coming to power.
 

Futurist

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May 2014
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I don't think that anyone here is disputing that Germany would have probably been better off without Hitler and the Nazis ever coming to power.
As a side note, though, I don't think that the Stab-in-the-Back legend was as responsible as the Great Depression was for Hitler's and the Nazis' rise to power. After all, before the Great Depression, the Nazis were essentially a fringe party; it was only after the Great Depression hit that the Nazis' support began reaching extremely high levels.
 

Futurist

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May 2014
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In regards to Germany's colonies, Yes, I think that Britain and France might eventually be willing to give or at least sell some or all of these colonies back to Germany (if these colonies do not already acquire independence, that is).