Pre-Christian Magyar religion

Tulun

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
3,739
Western Eurasia
#11
The Tengri deity name is simply not attested in Hungarian. Of course can't disclose it, we have many faith related Turkic words and the old Hungarians had a heavily Turkified culture. it is entirely possible that at least the Turkic tribes of the Hungarian federation (the 3 Khazar tribes and the Turkics among the 7 Magyar tribes) could worship Tengri, but it is then didn't survive, wasn't documented. I don't know if Hungarian expressions like "ég áldjon" "Sky bless you" are related to an ancient sky worship (Ég=sky itself is classified as a Finno-Ugric origin word) or are only later development and just synonymous to "Heaven bless you". :think:
the Turkic word for sky "Gök/Kök" became colour name in Hungarian, kék=blue.
 
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Tulun

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
3,739
Western Eurasia
#12
I just had a look on the wiki article about [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_mythology"]Finnish mythology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

most of what it writes is unfamiliar to me. It is interesting their chief pagan sky god was called Ukko, meaning old man. The word for old man is also the same in Hungarian ("agg") but it is not represented as a particular mithological figure here.

What it writes about animals is also interesting "[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Bear"]Brown Bear[/ame]; the bear was considered the most sacred of animals, only referred to by euphemisms (see [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taboo"]taboo[/ame])."

This could be true for all Uralic peoples. Interesting that despite proto-Hungarians could certainly know that animal from the earliest times due to the range of habitat of that animal, but our word for bear is a later Slavic loanword ("medve"). it could be also true for the ancestors of the Hungarians the name of the brown bear was a taboo word, that is why replaced by a foreign word. I've heard similar argument somewhere for our (Finno-Ugric origin) names for "wolf" (farkas=animal with "tail"), and "deer" (szarvas=animal with "horn"), that these could be euphemistic descriptions because their "true" names could be taboo words. How much truth is it i don't know.
 
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Afrasiyab

Ad Honorem
Sep 2007
6,378
#13
I just had a look on the wiki article about Finnish mythology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

most of what it writes is unfamiliar to me. It is interesting their chief pagan sky god was called Ukko, meaning old man. The word for old man is also the same in Hungarian ("agg") but it is not represented as a particular mithological figure here.

What it writes about animals is also interesting "Brown Bear; the bear was considered the most sacred of animals, only referred to by euphemisms (see taboo)."

This could be true for all Uralic peoples. Interesting that despite proto-Hungarians could certainly know that animal from the earliest times due to the range of habitat of that animal, but our word for bear is a later Slavic loanword ("medve"). it could be also true for the ancestors of the Hungarians the name of the brown bear was a taboo word, that is why replaced by a foreign word. I've heard similar argument somewhere for our (Finno-Ugric origin) names for "wolf" (farkas=animal with "tail"), and "deer" (szarvas=animal with "horn"), that these could be euphemistic descriptions because their "true" names could be taboo words. How much truth is it i don't know.

Compare Turkic agha (elder brother; father; respected man) and Mongolian akha with agg and ukko. There are lexical similarities.

I don't speak Hungarian but as far as I know there are many Turkic loan words in terms of animal names like hen, lion, leopard, camel, goat, bull, ox etc.
 

Isleifson

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,721
Lorraine tudesque
#14
I just had a look on the wiki article about Finnish mythology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

most of what it writes is unfamiliar to me. It is interesting their chief pagan sky god was called Ukko, meaning old man. The word for old man is also the same in Hungarian ("agg") but it is not represented as a particular mithological figure here.

What it writes about animals is also interesting "Brown Bear; the bear was considered the most sacred of animals, only referred to by euphemisms (see taboo)."

This could be true for all Uralic peoples. Interesting that despite proto-Hungarians could certainly know that animal from the earliest times due to the range of habitat of that animal, but our word for bear is a later Slavic loanword ("medve"). it could be also true for the ancestors of the Hungarians the name of the brown bear was a taboo word, that is why replaced by a foreign word. I've heard similar argument somewhere for our (Finno-Ugric origin) names for "wolf" (farkas=animal with "tail"), and "deer" (szarvas=animal with "horn"), that these could be euphemistic descriptions because their "true" names could be taboo words. How much truth is it i don't know.
Did you read the Kalevala?
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
13,798
Europix
#15
I suppose we will never have more than some (un)wise deductions. There are not enough primary sources, and as Hungarians passed to Christianity quickly and "abruptly" all we have is folklore, customs, parallels.

I found something somehow related ( but it's in French ;) )

*Le chamanisme dans la culture hongroise* / Shamanism in Hungarian culture

Le chamanisme dans la culture hongroise - Cairn.info
 

Isleifson

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,721
Lorraine tudesque
#16
I suppose we will never have more than some (un)wise deductions. There are not enough primary sources, and as Hungarians passed to Christianity quickly and "abruptly" all we have is folklore, customs, parallels.

I found something somehow related ( but it's in French ;) )

*Le chamanisme dans la culture hongroise* / Shamanism in Hungarian culture

Le chamanisme dans la culture hongroise - Cairn.info
Très bien deaf;)
 

Tulun

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
3,739
Western Eurasia
#17
Compare Turkic agha (elder brother; father; respected man) and Mongolian akha with agg and ukko. There are lexical similarities.
yes it is also found in Turkic, Mongolian and Tungusic languages, can be a common Ural-Altaic word.

I don't speak Hungarian but as far as I know there are many Turkic loan words in terms of animal names like hen, lion, leopard, camel, goat, bull, ox etc.
also true (except the leopárd, at least its modern Hungarian name leopárd/párduc is Western (Latin?) origin). A list of Turkic origin Hungarian animal names (not complete, i may missed some): béka (frog), bika (bull), borjú (calf), borz (badger), bögöly (horse-fly), bölény (buffalo), cickány (shrew, compare to Turkish siçan "rat") csődör (stallion), disznó (pig) gödény (a pelican type bird), görény (polecat), güzü (a type of rodent, no longer used), hattyú (swan) kárókatona (cormorant), karvaly (Eurasian sparrowhawk), kecske (goat), keselyű (vulture), komondor (a Hungarian dog type), kuvasz (another Hung. dog type), oroszlán (lion), ökör (ox), ölyv (in Hung it is a carnivorous bird type of the Buteo genus, in Mongol it is an eagle like bird), sárkány (dragon, ok it is mythological, not real animal name :) ) , serte/sertés (originally meant the skin of the boar, but now synonymous of disznó/pig, from a Chuvash type language), sólyom (falcon), süllő (zander, a fish type), szúnyog (mosquito), teknős (turtle, from teknő="trough", see Turkish tekne), teve (camel), tinó (young ox, ultimatly Indo-Iranian but came to us through a Turkic language), tulok (a collective name of bovini genus), túzok (great bustard), tyúk (hen), ünő (young female deer), ürge (Spermophilus), ürü (castrated ram)

a lot of them can be unfamiliar as many came from a Chuvash type language (or other non-Oguz one) and/or there was a change in their meanings in Hungarian.

And then there are also the many Turkic origin proper (personal or geographic) names that come from animal names but in Hungarian aren't used as common nouns, like the already mentioned Turul, then, Bese, Torontál (these all meaning types of carnivorous birds in some Turkic languages), the Kürt (Turkic wolf) tribe name, the Kaplon clan name (Kaplan Turk. tiger) and so on.
 
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Isleifson

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,721
Lorraine tudesque
#20