Preventing Communism in Europe

Sep 2016
1,267
Georgia
Not to mention, that Spain had to go through centuries of Reconquista and some Civil Wars right before 1492. Iberian Peninsula was not England and it took a long time to liberate it.
 
Sep 2019
182
Slovenia
First question here is what pushed Europe in stagnation during middle age...but this is another topic. However this is mostly the result of Arab and later Ottoman jihad which destroyed the trade in Mediterranean sea when they conquered north Africa from Greeks and later destroyed Byzantium. It is false to accuse barbarians for this stagnation because it is proven they tried very soon to imitate Romano-Greek civilization in many aspects.
 
Sep 2016
1,267
Georgia
Not to mention, that Spain had to go through centuries of Reconquista and some Civil Wars right before 1492. Iberian Peninsula was not England and it took a long time to liberate it.

Obviously, when i try to point out that America and Africa were less developed than European countries by 1500 and ask the question ,, why was it like that '', i get called whie supremacist by some guy from USA. You better to do some research on my country and it's history, before making such ridiculous statements. I bet you would also call Armenians ,, whie supremacists '' and tell them how good actually Turkey was and that there was no genocide.
 
Oct 2019
95
West Virginia
Hahahahah. There is no point in discussing anything with you after that and Mexico didn't exist as country at that time, whether you like it or not.

I am from Georgia, by the way. You know ? The country in Caucasus region and shares borders with Azerbaijan and Armenia.
It ill behooves you to condescend to me as you are utterly lacking an argument.

MEXICO, the place, existed, and its current population is mostly descended from those Native Americans who were there in 1520. And the entire territory was FAR richer than Spain and likely than all of Western Europe, at the time Cortés arrived.

Those of you attempting to defend or justify Euroimperialism fall very short, as all you can do is twist word definitions and make outlandish false claims.

Mexico was an advanced civilization, with many fields of science better developed than in contemporary Europe, having domesticated more food crops than any other region on earth, and with cities so superior to the European ones that when Cortés' soldiers first saw Tenochtitlán they thought they were dreaming, and these guys, many of them, had seen Rome and Constantinople. The food production systems of the Mexica and their neighbors made European agriculture look like the work of kindergartners.

If you know so little about Mexico, indeed there is no point in discussing it until you've done some research and learned some real facts.

Aw thanks but I know where Georgia is. I'm graduate-educated in Geography and Anthro, so again, your condescension only blows back in your face and reveals your shortcomings.
 
Oct 2019
95
West Virginia
First question here is what pushed Europe in stagnation during middle age...but this is another topic. However this is mostly the result of Arab and later Ottoman jihad which destroyed the trade in Mediterranean sea when they conquered north Africa from Greeks and later destroyed Byzantium. It is false to accuse barbarians for this stagnation because it is proven they tried very soon to imitate Romano-Greek civilization in many aspects.
Good point! It is often ignored that the Muslims had blockaded the Mediterranean to Christian shipping, that they were harassing the European coasts annually in many places, and had armies attempting to advance both in Iberia and the Balkans.

My own impression is that the primary cause of the so-called "Dark Ages" in Western Europe was the MOORS.
 
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JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,794
USA
You're not making sense, due to a hysterical white-defensive attitude, apparently.

There was a Mexico, it was called something else, and the territory taken together was FAR richer than Spain. You did not answer my question: what happened?

You throw around the word "superior" quite a bit, which I think reveals the essential problem of your thinking: it is white supremacist.

And that stale ploy of deflecting from European crimes to those of Arabs, Turks, Moors, etc.... nothing but a cheap trick.

Superior? Yeah, with Chinese gunpowder, Turkish firearms technology, a lot of advancements gleaned from Arabs and Moors. Europe did not develop in a vacuum.

Gold wasn't the determining factor, especially noting that W Africans had far more gold than the Europeans did. The Europeans went off on their imperialist adventurism because they'd managed to knock the Moors out of the way, the Muslim world was declining for various reasons, and the pattern of "reconquista" provided a structure of military conquest which was easy to carry beyond the borders of Iberia once the Moors were neutralized.

Mexica (Aztec) botanical and medical science were far superior to any in Europe in 1520. Pretending that they were nothing but "primitives" doomed to be inevitably conquered by "superior" imperialists is just more of the same white-right imperialist-apologetics nonsense which continues to poison much thinking in the West.
Hello partner,


Before the rise of scientific racism in the 18th-19th century there was a great diversity throughout the world. The middle ages saw a time when African Catholics were shown in paintings on equal grounds to white European counterparts. Btw our fellow poster Gvelion is not a so called white supremacist, give the poster a chance he or she is a good person. In the ancient ages the Roman Empire saw Africans, Europeans, Arabs and more combine to create one of if not the greatest Empires ever. The 3rd century of the Roman Empire saw numerous Arab Roman Emperors. Now fast forward to today, what has the ancient and middle ages become in Europe...well Europe is civilized far more then all of Africa or the middle east as the only country in Africa and the middle east today to allow lgbt marriage is South Africa which is black Christian majority. Now there are also the Muslim majority countries of Turkey and Albania and they are very liberal more so then say Saudi Arabia of the GCC states. History has brought us to this point. I suppose our world would be better if perhaps the Muslim Golden age did not stop, or if perhaps the Roman Empire would have expanded itself even more then it did in its zenith. Look at Syria for example, unlike Saudi Arabia Syria was once controlled by the Roman Empire..and this was before the time of Islam or the rise of Christian states.

You speak of exploration of the New World. It is a fact that for example Sir Francis Drake the 16th century English Hero...worked with the Cimarron African people as equals and did so in the fight against the Spanish Empire. Drake also sailed to modern day San Francisco, all the way from England on a 16th century ship which was a heroic and amazing feat considering everything.

Not to mention the late 11th century. The Catholic Godfrey of Bouillon was a renown leader of what became known as the first crusade. And Godfrey according to the French historian Rene Grousset was a man of tolerance taking up friendships with Muslims. And that type of tolerance is seen in huge numbers today in the Catholic majority countries. European Christian folks in general have played a large role throughout history in bringing liberal values to society.

Bigotry is a worldwide issue today,. North and South America as well as Europe have issues, but bigotry is much worse in The GCC States, Israel, and practically all of Africa save South Africa. And how did it get to that point? There would be numerous answers but this is where history has brought us to.
 
Last edited:
Oct 2019
95
West Virginia
Hello partner,


Before the rise of scientific racism in the 18th-19th century there was a great diversity throughout the world. The middle ages saw a time when African Catholics were shown in paintings on equal grounds to white European counterparts. Btw our fellow poster Gvelion is not a so called white supremacist, give the poster a chance he or she is a good person. In the ancient ages the Roman Empire saw Africans, Europeans, Arabs and more combine to create one of if not the greatest Empires ever. The 3rd century of the Roman Empire saw numerous Arab Roman Emperors. Now fast forward to today, what has the ancient and middle ages become in Europe...well Europe is civilized far more then all of Africa or the middle east as the only country in Africa and the middle east today to allow lgbt marriage is South Africa which is black Christian majority. Now there are also the Muslim majority countries of Turkey and Albania and they are very liberal more so then say Saudi Arabia of the GCC states. History has brought us to this point. I suppose our world would be better if perhaps the Muslim Golden age did not stop, or if perhaps the Roman Empire would have expanded itself even more then it did in its zenith. Look at Syria for example, unlike Saudi Arabia Syria was once controlled by the Roman Empire..and this was before the time of Islam or the rise of Christian states.

You speak of exploration of the New World. It is a fact that for example Sir Francis Drake the 16th century English Hero...worked with the Cimarron African people as equals and did so in the fight against the Spanish Empire. Drake also sailed to modern day San Francisco, all the way from England on a 16th century ship which was a heroic and amazing feat considering everything.

Not to mention the late 11th century. The Catholic Godfrey of Bouillon was a renown leader of what became known as the first crusade. And Godfrey according to the French historian Rene Grousset was a man of tolerance taking up friendships with Muslims. And that type of tolerance is seen in huge numbers today in the Catholic majority countries. European Christian folks in general have played a large role throughout history in bringing liberal values to society.

Bigotry is a worldwide issue today,. North and South America as well as Europe have issues, but bigotry is much worse in The GCC States, Israel, and practically all of Africa save South Africa. And how did it get to that point? There would be numerous answers but this is where history has brought us to.
I appreciate your attempts to understand this, and can contribute one salient fact which may help you. Racism is the step-child of Euroimperialism! It was concocted to support the notion of the "white man's burden", essentially to rationalize the abuse of non-Europeans. So the fiction of "race", of a "white race", "black race", etc., was created, and has poisoned the world's thinking ever since.

It is quite true that in Roman times being black, Arab or whatever was not nearly the problem it becomes in the modern world. When non-whites exhibit this racism, usually it is a reaction to the white racism. That doesn't make it any more noble, I mean a black racist is as despicable as a white one, but nonetheless we can not avoid the conclusion that the sociomental disease of racism originated with the Europeans.

We can also find examples of ethnic hatred and bigotry which do not trace to the Europeans (Chinese feelings of superiority over "barbarians", for one example), but nevertheless the global racism we see today I think is rooted firmly in Euroimperialism.

In the USA this began in Virginia in the 17th century, when the legal distinction of "white" and "black" was invented, its purpose being to facilitate the enslavement of Africans.
 
Oct 2019
95
West Virginia
Regarding "Communists" (by which I mean real Communists, the Soviets) and racism... it is, shall we say, ironic that the Soviets so often loudly proclaimed their opposition to all the racism in the West, in the colonies and in the USA, as part of their overall condemnation of "corrupt capitalism", yet as soon as the USSR dissolved, Russia revealed itself as probably the most racist country in Europe!

I don't know what deep meaning to derive from that, and I am not much aware of the history of racism in Russia, but really... I can say that this is just one more example of Soviet hypocrisy.
 

JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,794
USA
Regarding "Communists" (by which I mean real Communists, the Soviets) and racism... it is, shall we say, ironic that the Soviets so often loudly proclaimed their opposition to all the racism in the West, in the colonies and in the USA, as part of their overall condemnation of "corrupt capitalism", yet as soon as the USSR dissolved, Russia revealed itself as probably the most racist country in Europe!

I don't know what deep meaning to derive from that, and I am not much aware of the history of racism in Russia, but really... I can say that this is just one more example of Soviet hypocrisy.
There have been many brave and honorable Communists of history. Millions of Communists have supported equal rights for LGBT, and minorities through history going back to the earliest Soviet times in Russia where Homosexuality was decriminalized and for a time the death penalty was abolished. Today Russian and American conservatives, some but not all share the trait of thinking its somehow manly to stand up to minorities or lgbt people. I agree that modern day Russia and the USA have issues they need to address but I think its not mostly wrt bigotry but mostly wrt workers rights. Take note how over 50,000 GM workers in the USA today are striking against Gm(General Motors) for better worker rights, that reminds us of the massive workers rights movements in the USA in the industrial age when saw American men and women striking against the sweatshops.