Preventing Communism in Europe

JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,794
USA
I appreciate your attempts to understand this, and can contribute one salient fact which may help you. Racism is the step-child of Euroimperialism! It was concocted to support the notion of the "white man's burden", essentially to rationalize the abuse of non-Europeans. So the fiction of "race", of a "white race", "black race", etc., was created, and has poisoned the world's thinking ever since.

It is quite true that in Roman times being black, Arab or whatever was not nearly the problem it becomes in the modern world. When non-whites exhibit this racism, usually it is a reaction to the white racism. That doesn't make it any more noble, I mean a black racist is as despicable as a white one, but nonetheless we can not avoid the conclusion that the sociomental disease of racism originated with the Europeans.

We can also find examples of ethnic hatred and bigotry which do not trace to the Europeans (Chinese feelings of superiority over "barbarians", for one example), but nevertheless the global racism we see today I think is rooted firmly in Euroimperialism.

In the USA this began in Virginia in the 17th century, when the legal distinction of "white" and "black" was invented, its purpose being to facilitate the enslavement of Africans.
Thanks friend. Well look at the world today, bigotry is a worldwide issue. So called racism is something that can effect all people not just blacks or whites. As we know even after the middle ages their were cases of White Explorers working with non whites as equals. Are there are cases of Arab or African explorers post middle ages that sought to seek out the world and perhaps they meant with people that did not look like them? We know of Columbus, Cortes and Francis Drake, but how about African and Arab explorers of the same time period?


Race as pointed out by a 1951 UN report is not a real topic, there are no races but rather one human species. That is an interesting point you bring up though about the origin of the terms white and black irt so called race. And yet today its not Africa or the middle east that leads the way as they did in the middle ages perhaps, but it is North and South America, and Europe which are the most liberal. How did we get here? Its history clearly. For w/e reason today its the Christian majority Countries in North and South America, Europe and one country in Africa and the middle east which is South Africa that allow LGBT marriage an indicator of being very liberal.
 
Oct 2019
95
West Virginia
There have been many brave and honorable Communists of history. Millions of Communists have supported equal rights for LGBT, and minorities through history going back to the earliest Soviet times in Russia where Homosexuality was decriminalized and for a time the death penalty was abolished. Today Russian and American conservatives, some but not all share the trait of thinking its somehow manly to stand up to minorities or lgbt people. I agree that modern day Russia and the USA have issues they need to address but I think its not mostly wrt bigotry but mostly wrt workers rights. Take note how over 50,000 GM workers in the USA today are striking against Gm(General Motors) for better worker rights, that reminds us of the massive workers rights movements in the USA in the industrial age when saw American men and women striking against the sweatshops.
Yep. The problem with Communism has been the Marxist-Leninist version of it as manifested in the USSR.

The errors trace back to Marx himself. His analytical method was admirable and revolutionized social science, but his praxis was flawed, and there is an extensive critique of Marx, and of course of the USSR, from the Left which has led to many of us being unable to identify or affiliate with "Marxists" or "Communists". If this were 1936, this would not be the case.

The bigotry you cite is despicable. Clearly the Soviet system did not manage to re-educate the population in this respect, as so many Russians go along with Putin's bigotry.

And the USA continues to fail to live up to its vaunted promises of freedom as long as exploitation is so rampant and so easy to accomplish with govt complicity. The corporate owners continue to hijack the govt allegedly "of the people". Racism is a useful tool for our rulers, and in fact necessary for them, to prevent solidarity of all, including white, workers.
 
Oct 2019
95
West Virginia
Thanks friend. Well look at the world today, bigotry is a worldwide issue. So called racism is something that can effect all people not just blacks or whites. As we know even after the middle ages their were cases of White Explorers working with non whites as equals. Are there are cases of Arab or African explorers post middle ages that sought to seek out the world and perhaps they meant with people that did not look like them? We know of Columbus, Cortes and Francis Drake, but how about African and Arab explorers of the same time period?


Race as pointed out by a 1951 UN report is not a real topic, there are no races but rather one human species. That is an interesting point you bring up though about the origin of the terms white and black irt so called race. And yet today its not Africa or the middle east that leads the way as they did in the middle ages perhaps, but it is North and South America, and Europe which are the most liberal. How did we get here? Its history clearly. For w/e reason today its the Christian majority Countries in North and South America, Europe and one country in Africa and the middle east which is South Africa that allow LGBT marriage an indicator of being very liberal.
I do not attribute the relative social advancement of those nations to Christianity, but to democracy.

Democracy is a step toward a better world... we are still not evolved to the point that we do not allow a small clique of opportunists to run the world, but...

Dr. King said, the tendency of history is toward justice.
 

JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,794
USA
Yep. The problem with Communism has been the Marxist-Leninist version of it as manifested in the USSR.

The errors trace back to Marx himself. His analytical method was admirable and revolutionized social science, but his praxis was flawed, and there is an extensive critique of Marx, and of course of the USSR, from the Left which has led to many of us being unable to identify or affiliate with "Marxists" or "Communists". If this were 1936, this would not be the case.

The bigotry you cite is despicable. Clearly the Soviet system did not manage to re-educate the population in this respect, as so many Russians go along with Putin's bigotry.

And the USA continues to fail to live up to its vaunted promises of freedom as long as exploitation is so rampant and so easy to accomplish with govt complicity. The corporate owners continue to hijack the govt allegedly "of the people". Racism is a useful tool for our rulers, and in fact necessary for them, to prevent solidarity of all, including white, workers.
Yes as you point out some Russian and American men think its cool to discriminate against minorities and lgbt people. But that attitude is not found in the middle or ancient ages, and many Russians and Americans today are totally fine with equal rights for all. So how did we get here? Why is most of the middle east and Africa intolerant? Why is it that lgbt marriage is allowed in most of North and South America and Europe but not at all in the middle east or Africa save one single country, South Africa? History has got us to this point.


In the 1930s My great Grandpa led strikes against Bethlehem steel. One case involved an employer that tried to drive his car through a line of striking workers, a car attack if you will and we know of these attacks in the modern times. And yet my great grandpa, an Irish Catholic whom first immigrated to Canada and then the USA...somehow pulled the man out of his car..the car was flipped over by workers and burned. But get this, my great grandpa and the employer later shared a drink and reconciled. It was about workers rights. That was the true American and Christian spirit of the American 20th century that provided my country a strong middle class that we saw for most of the 20th century in the USA when the middle class was strong, when workers rights were strong. Btw Barros I have alwayd cited FDR as the greatest American for workers rights black and white alike. Take Roscoe Brown the Tuskegee airman of WW2, he sighted FDR as a great leader for the black community.

Well today the USA and the world need another FDR. For it was FDR whom said " If I got a Factory job the first thing I would do is join a Union". That was a man for the people.

Today I feel that most of Russia and the USA is filled with good people, maybe you disagree with me on this maybe not. I can tell you that the WW2 era as we both know saw Communists and non Communists work together for a greater good. Could it have been the cold war that prevented even greater goods from being achieved post WW2? What if the allied vision during WW2 of the 4 global policemen, the USSR, China, The British Empire and The USA teaming up to prevent any wars post WW2 had prevailed, how would Africa , Asia and the middle east look today? Would there have been a Vietnam war?
 
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JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,794
USA
I do not attribute the relative social advancement of those nations to Christianity, but to democracy.

Democracy is a step toward a better world... we are still not evolved to the point that we do not allow a small clique of opportunists to run the world, but...

Dr. King said, the tendency of history is toward justice.
To your points about American men and women in pursuit of workers rights... I look up to Frances Perkins, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King Jr, Henry Ford, and FDR. Ford especially he provided millions of middle class jobs to multiple generations of all backgrounds worldwide not just in the USA.
 
Oct 2019
34
Budapest
Late medieval Western Christian Europe (The Western civilization) was the most advanced/developed part of the world in every sense since the late 13th century. Eversince the late 13th century, Europe became the largest creator and inventor of new inventions,new technology and science, however around the same time, the Asian countries like China and India became copy-paste civilizations with zero contributions in science and technology. Since the early 15th cenrtury, the average Joe in North Italy or in the Netherlands had far superior living standard in a comparison with average citizen in Rome.
 
Sep 2019
182
Slovenia
Well i would just add something about LGBT. Under Stalin or Mao homosexuals were persecuted harshly. Only after the fall of communism homosexuality was legalized in Russia and even today they have quite some problems with this. But NKVD and KGB were of course ready to blackmail important American homosexuals so that they served Soviet interests. They used the fact that homosexuality was banned at that time in USA for their advantage. Senator Joe MacCharty warned about it and he was right yet he was dealing mostly with Soviet agents in USA administration.
 
Oct 2019
95
West Virginia
Yes as you point out some Russian and American men think its cool to discriminate against minorities and lgbt people. But that attitude is not found in the middle or ancient ages, and many Russians and Americans today are totally fine with equal rights for all. So how did we get here? Why is most of the middle east and Africa intolerant? Why is it that lgbt marriage is allowed in most of North and South America and Europe but not at all in the middle east or Africa save one single country, South Africa? History has got us to this point.


In the 1930s My great Grandpa led strikes against Bethlehem steel. One case involved an employer that tried to drive his car through a line of striking workers, a car attack if you will and we know of these attacks in the modern times. And yet my great grandpa, an Irish Catholic whom first immigrated to Canada and then the USA...somehow pulled the man out of his car..the car was flipped over by workers and burned. But get this, my great grandpa and the employer later shared a drink and reconciled. It was about workers rights. That was the true American and Christian spirit of the American 20th century that provided my country a strong middle class that we saw for most of the 20th century in the USA when the middle class was strong, when workers rights were strong. Btw Barros I have alwayd cited FDR as the greatest American for workers rights black and white alike. Take Roscoe Brown the Tuskegee airman of WW2, he sighted FDR as a great leader for the black community.

Well today the USA and the world need another FDR. For it was FDR whom said " If I got a Factory job the first thing I would do is join a Union". That was a man for the people.

Today I feel that most of Russia and the USA is filled with good people, maybe you disagree with me on this maybe not. I can tell you that the WW2 era as we both know saw Communists and non Communists work together for a greater good. Could it have been the cold war that prevented even greater goods from being achieved post WW2? What if the allied vision during WW2 of the 4 global policemen, the USSR, China, The British Empire and The USA teaming up to prevent any wars post WW2 had prevailed, how would Africa , Asia and the middle east look today? Would there have been a Vietnam war?
Unfortunately none of the world's powers has abandoned the imperialist pattern of behavior. They all want to be larger, more powerful. The lessons of WW2 are lost on them, apparently.
 
Oct 2019
95
West Virginia
Late medieval Western Christian Europe (The Western civilization) was the most advanced/developed part of the world in every sense since the late 13th century. Eversince the late 13th century, Europe became the largest creator and inventor of new inventions,new technology and science, however around the same time, the Asian countries like China and India became copy-paste civilizations with zero contributions in science and technology. Since the early 15th cenrtury, the average Joe in North Italy or in the Netherlands had far superior living standard in a comparison with average citizen in Rome.
Late Medieval Europe was hardly the paradise you suggest. Misery was rampant, peasants were virtual slaves still, and the church still rigidly controlled intellectual life. The standard of living was higher in Moorish Spain.

India at the time was Mughal occupied, and China ravaged by Mongols.

In many respects the standard of living in Mexico was higher than that of 13th-century Europe.
 
Oct 2019
95
West Virginia
Well i would just add something about LGBT. Under Stalin or Mao homosexuals were persecuted harshly. Only after the fall of communism homosexuality was legalized in Russia and even today they have quite some problems with this. But NKVD and KGB were of course ready to blackmail important American homosexuals so that they served Soviet interests. They used the fact that homosexuality was banned at that time in USA for their advantage. Senator Joe MacCharty warned about it and he was right yet he was dealing mostly with Soviet agents in USA administration.
The notion that the USA Administration, this would have been those of Truman and Eisenhower, was comprised mostly of Soviet agents is ludicrous. McCarthy was a hysterical paranoid ideologue. Once exposed by Edward R. Murrow, his influence quickly waned, after he'd destroyed numerous careers without cause.

The USA committed extensive crimes in the ill-conceived efforts to combat the Soviets, or more accurately, using that as an excuse to force countries to adopt pro-corporate policies. The foreign policy of the Dulles brothers was criminal.