Prussia acquires Alsace-Lorraine in 1815

Jun 2017
2,879
Connecticut
#11
France takes every loss like its global tragedy, if they suffered the kinds of losses Germany did in the 20th century, then they probably would have permanently collapsed.
And this is why the 20th century was such a disaster. The Nazi's, Communists and most things cited as horrible over the last 100 years all could have been averted if the French didn't go wild over losing a sliver of land and destabilize the Bismarck system.

Doubt France collapses though, just complains more and goes down the Germany path perhaps. Also tbd, France's losses in WWI per a percentage of population were on the level of Germany's, maybe higher. Same reason the Italians were so mad after WWI, it wasn't their losses were huge compared to the others but when you factor in their smaller population(Italy and France were the smallest great powers if we aren't counting the Ottomans) they were hit harder. Meanwhile Russia which did collapse had losses that weren't much larger than France's despite having over four times the number of people, the issue there was deeper than the manpower losses had more to do with conditions caused by the war.
 

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,387
#12
And this is why the 20th century was such a disaster. The Nazi's, Communists and most things cited as horrible over the last 100 years all could have been averted if the French didn't go wild over losing a sliver of land and destabilize the Bismarck system.
Considering Germany possessed Elsass-Lothringen when it attacked France, that makes rather little sense. Would have needed to be the other way around really. Germany destabilized Bismarck's "system".
 
Feb 2019
599
Serbia
#13
Probably would've made a future Franco-Prussian War even more difficult for France due to Prussia having better defensible terrain and extra resources. France would probably not grieve over it. If Prussia or anyone else is given anything more than France's pre-1792 borders Britain and Austria would likely protest. Prussia would also have more resources to fuel industrialisation.
 
Feb 2019
599
Serbia
#14
France takes every loss like its global tragedy, if they suffered the kinds of losses Germany did in the 20th century, then they probably would have permanently collapsed.
How so? Just because they would lose some territory doesn't mean that they would collapse, just like Germany didn't collapse. As for taking every loss as global tragedy, when did they do that except for Alsace-Lorraine?

if the French didn't go wild over losing a sliver of land and destabilize the Bismarck system.
We've been through this already. Still, I would like to ask: How would all of the 20th century disasters simply disappear if France didn't ''go wild''? Communism was already a philosophy before the 20th century and I think it would've been attempted somewhere eventually, we've already talked about the causes of WWI and I still think that it would've happened eventually. Fascism maybe wouldn't happen on such a large scale but it would probably still emerge if there is a global war.
 
Jun 2017
2,879
Connecticut
#16
How so? Just because they would lose some territory doesn't mean that they would collapse, just like Germany didn't collapse. As for taking every loss as global tragedy, when did they do that except for Alsace-Lorraine?



We've been through this already. Still, I would like to ask: How would all of the 20th century disasters simply disappear if France didn't ''go wild''? Communism was already a philosophy before the 20th century and I think it would've been attempted somewhere eventually, we've already talked about the causes of WWI and I still think that it would've happened eventually. Fascism maybe wouldn't happen on such a large scale but it would probably still emerge if there is a global war.
Okay I'll take back the "all" and say "many". With the USSR referring specifically to the fall of the Russian Empire, not Communism(and I don't think Communism existed per Marx's writings). Also seeing successful "Communist" revolutions only happen in agrarian societies and never in industrial ones, the "elsewhere" is limited to non great powers who are basically harmless, unlike the USSR. Even with China without the USSR things likely end up much better as Stalin was an influence on many of the practices that caused death and destruction there as well.

Huge difference between Fascism(which was inevitable) and what ended up happening in the 1930s and 1940s. I'm not saying the 20th century would be some magical utopia without problems, heck it could be worse given the butterfly effect who knows all I know is the most notorious issues of our timeline couldn't have happened without the French's desire to undo the status quo of 1870. With Russia in particular France recruited Russia into the alliance that got the regime overthrown.
 
Jun 2017
2,879
Connecticut
#17
Considering Germany possessed Elsass-Lothringen when it attacked France, that makes rather little sense. Would have needed to be the other way around really. Germany destabilized Bismarck's "system".
I guess you can say by picking Austria as an ally over Russia the Germans did destabilize their own system. But that mistake is irrelevant if France doesn't want to ally with Russia.
 
Apr 2017
1,237
U.S.A.
#20
How so? Just because they would lose some territory doesn't mean that they would collapse, just like Germany didn't collapse. As for taking every loss as global tragedy, when did they do that except for Alsace-Lorraine?
QUOTE]
France complained/s about the German invasions of both world wars to this day, especially blaming ww2 for contributing to the loss of their place in the world and their colonial empire. If France lost ww1, had to give up all its oversee colonies and pay a huge indemnity, then turn warmonger and lose 20% of their country permanently, while being divided into four occupation zones for years before being reconstructed into two states that are pitted against each other for 40 years and being the possible frontline of WWIII; I have doubts France would weather this.
 
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