Question about a quote from Livy

Feb 2018
32
Belgium
#1
Hi everyone !

I have a question about this passage : " The narrative seems rather significant of the curious "consideration" in which the virtuous Romans held their african partners and opponents not only they would not scruple to miss their word, but repeats Livy, more than all other barbarians, "they feel an excessive taste for the appeals of Venus" (XXIX, 23.4, XXX, 12.18) ----> p212 of the book of François Decrêt "Carthage ou l'empire de la mer" (sorry if my translation is bad I did my best because the original quote was in french) So my question is what does Livy meant by "the appeals of Venus" ?

Thanks in advance !
 
Feb 2011
1,083
Scotland
#2
In both cases Livy is referring to Numidians, not Carthaginians. Romans frequently liked to attach broad characteristics to barbarians . For the Numidians, he suggests that their passions were often inflamed, perhaps due to the heat in Numidia - but more likely because it adds fuel to the flames of Syphax’ passion for Sophonisba and. subsequently Masinissa’s interest in her.
 
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AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
26,889
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#3
Actually I was checking the Latin texts with not so positive results. When you need to read Latin texts, in the Anglo-Saxon internet, you can make reference to www.thelatinlibrary.com.

You can use google translator to understand something [I know Latin, so you can trust me about this ... google translator with Latin commits real crimes against mankind! Clearly at Google they don't know Latin so well ... but anyway it can give you an idea about the content].
 
Feb 2018
32
Belgium
#4
In both cases Livy is referring to Numidians, not Carthaginians. Romans frequently liked to attach broad characteristics to barbarians . For the Numidians, he suggests that their passions were often inflamed, perhaps due to the heat in Numidia - but more likely because it adds fuel to the flames of Syphax’ passion for Sophonisba and. subsequently Masinissa’s interest in her.
Yes you're right i think because it was in the context of sophonisba and massinissa anyway thanks
 
Feb 2018
32
Belgium
#5
Actually I was checking the Latin texts with not so positive results. When you need to read Latin texts, in the Anglo-Saxon internet, you can make reference to www.thelatinlibrary.com.

You can use google translator to understand something [I know Latin, so you can trust me about this ... google translator with Latin commits real crimes against mankind! Clearly at Google they don't know Latin so well ... but anyway it can give you an idea about the content].
What do you mean ? The expression is non-existent ? I have the book of françois Décret here i can show the page if needed ( but it's in french) in french it's the expression " les attraits de Vénus"
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
26,889
Italy, Lago Maggiore
#7
What do you mean ? The expression is non-existent ? I have the book of françois Décret here i can show the page if needed ( but it's in french) in french it's the expression " les attraits de Vénus"
I was paying attention to the general meaning. So you are looking for a reference to Venus ... ok, if your references to the Latin texts are correct, I can check this.
 
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Oct 2015
874
Virginia
#8
Canon Roberts english translation (1905) says: " ..the Numidians are of all barbarians the most ardent lovers." And: "...a slave to passion, like all his countrymen.."
Aubrey de Selincourt (1917) says: "...the Numidians surpass all other barbarian peoples in the violence of their appetites.." And: "with the characteristic inflammability of the Numidian race..."
Victorian discretion?
Sophonisba! ..woohoo! "I should have died a better death if I had not married on the day of my funeral." (Livy xxx.15)
 
Last edited:
Likes: Nassbean
#9
You’re welcome. Also, I do not think that the Romans thought of Carthaginians as barbarians.
I think in some respects they did (e.g. in the context of child sacrifice, 'Punic faith' [=perfidy], etc), but that Hannibal was treated as a great man among barbarians to help justify their defeats to him. I seem to recall this being discussed in Richard Miles, Carthage Must Be Destroyed.
 
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Feb 2018
32
Belgium
#10
Canon Roberts english translation (1905) says: " ..the Numidians are of all barbarians the most ardent lovers." And: "...a slave to passion, like all his countrymen.."
Aubrey de Selincourt (1917) says: "...the Numidians surpass all other barbarian peoples in the violence of their appetites.." And: "with the characteristic inflammability of the Numidian race..."
Victorian discretion?
Sophonisba! ..woohoo! "I should have died a better death if I had not married on the day of my funeral." (Livy xxx.15)
Very interesting Thank you very much !
 

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