Questions about Goguryeo

heylouis

Ad Honorem
Apr 2013
6,400
China
That can still happen without the idea of Minzu. Group identity doesn't have to be ethnic in nature to implement political policies.
I think, as I said, it was for convenience, to establish a system that filters people based on the *real* economical data is difficult and costly, until recently we start to have the ability to do it with the big data and the help of IT techs.
 
Apr 2019
3
qwerty123
The point of using rammed earth to build edifices was not so that people thousands of years later could validate whether they lasted as well as stone or not.



This is exactly what I am refuting. It's almost as if you didn't absorb anything I said. Goguryeo is considered Koreanic because the Samguk Sagi included it. Whatever the case, the point remains that this is retroactive labelling. At most you can say Koreans are descended from people of Goguryeo. But guess what? The majority if Goguryeo was absorbed into China as well. Not to mention Buyeo and Balhae, two other kingdoms claimed as uniquely Korean.

As I said before. Language, culture, even sharing DNA are things that just happen when people get together in groups. The significant feature of a true nation is a common identity.

If Goguryeo is Korean because some modern day Koreans are related to Goguryeo, then Korea is Japanese because same Japanese came from the Korean penninsula. You can draw some cultural similarties between Japanese and Koreans too. England is an American country. Same logic.

As has been discussed previously on this forum those are quite weak connections. Heated flooring is not unique to Koreans. Manchus have it and so do others in Central Asia. Take a look at Sui and Tang dynasty fashion as well as Manchurian clothing. You will see the fashion combines many elements. The first mention of Taekkyeon was during the Joseon between 1776 and 1800.

Other weak connections I have heard include maekjeok, chunks of pork meat on skeweres, as the precursor to bulgogi, marinated slices of beef.

Might as well say the Shang dynasty came from Silla and Chiwoo was Korean and defeated the Yellow Emperor (oh wait people have)
Holy ****. Here comes the 50 cent Army.
You don't have to work overtime bro, the party should take care of your basic necessities cuz equal distribution y'know. If you want, you can bring back that failed North East Project. China's got a great history of its own, yall state-sponsored (as funny as that sounds) nationalists gotta chill.
 

Haakbus

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,767
United States
Holy ****. Here comes the 50 cent Army.
You don't have to work overtime bro, the party should take care of your basic necessities cuz equal distribution y'know. If you want, you can bring back that failed North East Project. China's got a great history of its own, yall state-sponsored (as funny as that sounds) nationalists gotta chill.
Man chill out. If you disagree with him disprove his points with logic and facts, not personal attacks.

Also 3 year old necromancy.
 

Haakbus

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,767
United States
First off, Koguryo was its own entity, not Korean, not Chinese, not Manchu since none of those designations or concepts existed at that time. This is important to understand in my opinion. Puyo is probably the only group Koguryo would readily associate itself with, and they were for all practical purposes destroyed in the 340s. Identity is fluid and arbitrary.

However, this doesn't mean we can't determine cultural ties to one society or another.
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
4,811
Sydney
on the use of building materials
people build with what is locally available
in wooded countries they build in wood ..northern Europe
in silted zone , they build in earth ...mesopotama , Spain meseta
in rocky areas they build in stones
building material choice come down to the incredibly high cost of transport
it was quite common to have quarries under the city which was build above ground ....Paris

given the few possible choices local will develop their style and technology very quickly to a high standard if the money ( food resources ) is available
 

Haakbus

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,767
United States
on the use of building materials
people build with what is locally available
in wooded countries they build in wood ..northern Europe
in silted zone , they build in earth ...mesopotama , Spain meseta
in rocky areas they build in stones
building material choice come down to the incredibly high cost of transport
it was quite common to have quarries under the city which was build above ground ....Paris

given the few possible choices local will develop their style and technology very quickly to a high standard if the money ( food resources ) is available
True. Gothic architecture originated in France but spread all throughout Europe. Does that make most of Western Europe actually part of France or French countries?



As for language, as I've said, the place names are unreliable since most of them are from conquered territories. They are only from Koguryo's southern territories and show a mix of Koreanic and Japonic, and to a lesser extent Tungusic or opaque.

The few reliable Koguryo words we have are unclear but show the closest affinity to Korean, especially in certain specific sound changes known from other varieties of Korean (e.g. -t- -> -r-). The History of the Southern Dynasties states that the languages and clothing of Paekche and Koguryo were basically the same. We have enough data about the Paekche language to determine that it was definitely Koreanic.

There is no evidence of a Japonic language ever being spoken in Manchuria (at least that I've seen), while there is evidence of a long and extensive contact between Koreanic and the ancestor of Manchu and Jurchen.
 
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