Questions about Medieval German Colonization

Isleifson

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,603
Lorraine tudesque
#11
I'd say that "many" is a very hazardous hypothesis. "Very few" would be closer.

It's one of the reasons German communities have lasted so long, preserving their language and culture.

As an asside: we should not forget that besides the "Burgers"(citadins) there were also the German peasants (villages).
Deaf is right of course - the German did not mix.

In Transsylvania they mixed with the Hungarian after World War 2. With the Romanian after 1989 in Germany...
 

Ficino

Ad Honorem
Apr 2012
6,762
Romania
#13
In Transsylvania they mixed with the Hungarian after World War 2. With the Romanian after 1989 in Germany...
Perhaps you don't know about what you are talking, I have been personally acquainted with more than a couple who mixed with Romanians in Romania and long before 1989, including a close relative by alliance of my father.
 
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Ficino

Ad Honorem
Apr 2012
6,762
Romania
#15
Yes it did happen. But it was clearly an exeption.

The Volga German started to mix with the Russian after WW2. In Kasashstan.
There wasn't a rule to mix with Hungarians either, and your claim was simply wrong considering that I have knowledge of a lot more such people besides those with whom I have been personally acquainted (from family to friends, teachers and school colleagues, either Transylvanian Germans married to Romanians or people of mixed Romanian-Transylvanian German ancestry), including someone in my wife's family.
 
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Oct 2013
12,952
Europix
#16
There wasn't a rule to mix with Hungarians either, and your claim was simply wrong considering that I have knowledge of a lot more such people besides those with whom I have been personally acquainted (from family to friends, teachers and school colleagues, either Transylvanian Germans married to Romanians or people of mixed Romanian-Transylvanian German ancestry), including someone in my wife's family.
The initial allegation (mine), was that "many" [Germans mixing] is a very hazardous hypothesis. "Very few" would be closer.

On historical scale, it remains true.

Meanwhile, I think that Gemans starting "mixing" only after WWII/1989 is also a hazardous hypothesis, Isleifson. We might say that 20th c/late 20th c saw the phenomenon occuring more often than before. But that is less linked to Germans, not specific only to them. It has more to do with urbanization, mentality changes that occurred plus particularities of the Communist regimes.
 

Ficino

Ad Honorem
Apr 2012
6,762
Romania
#17
The initial allegation (mine), was that "many" [Germans mixing] is a very hazardous hypothesis. "Very few" would be closer.

On historical scale, it remains true.

Meanwhile, I think that Gemans starting "mixing" only after WWII/1989 is also a hazardous hypothesis, Isleifson. We might say that 20th c/late 20th c saw the phenomenon occuring more often than before. But that is less linked to Germans, not specific only to them. It has more to do with urbanization and mentality changes that occurred.
But I agree with you that their "substantial" majority married into their own community, and that perhaps even after WW2, what I disagreed with was Isleifson's (ridiculous for anyone acquainted with the real situation) claim that "In Transsylvania they mixed with the Hungarian after World War 2. With the Romanian after 1989 in Germany... ". I ask myself from where did he get such an "information"...
 
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Ichon

Ad Honorem
Mar 2013
3,453
#18
The initial allegation (mine), was that "many" [Germans mixing] is a very hazardous hypothesis. "Very few" would be closer.

On historical scale, it remains true.

Meanwhile, I think that Gemans starting "mixing" only after WWII/1989 is also a hazardous hypothesis, Isleifson. We might say that 20th c/late 20th c saw the phenomenon occuring more often than before. But that is less linked to Germans, not specific only to them. It has more to do with urbanization, mentality changes that occurred plus particularities of the Communist regimes.
I think it depends much on where you are looking. Settlement in Prussia and NE was exactly as you say- the idea of a greater German identity was quite strong already in CE 1000 and became especially connected to Christian identity in areas of surrounding pagan peoples and speaking German and being Christian were central to that identity. The Slavic vs German question is really too complicated and in my opinion not fully understood yet to bother getting into.

Bohemia and SE it is a bit different at least until rising of the Habsburgs when German identity was somewhat more desirable but in Bohemia where Czech and Slovaks were accepted as the dominant peoples for most of the Duchies history, it was still considered a German-influenced Duchy even prior to the Duke being an elector prince or the Habsburgs taking formal rule.

Then the obvious Swiss Cantons where local issues vastly overreached any ideas of a greater German identity while the area of strong German settlement in Slovenia, Transylvania(settlement traced back to Teutonic Knights and a very German identity was strong), Romania, and Hungary are quite hard to understand even today but looking at parish or other church records were available it seems 4-5 waves of settlement can be traced from the early expansion of Germanic speakers to the relatively late invitations of Catherine the Great in the 18th century.
 

Ficino

Ad Honorem
Apr 2012
6,762
Romania
#19
Then the obvious Swiss Cantons where local issues vastly overreached any ideas of a greater German identity while the area of strong German settlement in Slovenia, Transylvania(settlement traced back to Teutonic Knights and a very German identity was strong), Romania, and Hungary are quite hard to understand even today but looking at parish or other church records were available it seems 4-5 waves of settlement can be traced from the early expansion of Germanic speakers to the relatively late invitations of Catherine the Great in the 18th century.
About the various groups of Germans in the Romanian space you can read starting from Overview and classification.
 
Feb 2019
6
British Columbia
#20
Sorry for the potential double post - but it doesn't look like a post I made earlier is showing up clearly. I just want to clarify if anyone else can see it or if I need to repost it?
 

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