Racial legislation's criteria in Europe : Spains (16th) and Nazi Germany (20th)

Sep 2019
3
Reims
Hello everybody.

I'd like to know what were exactly criteria determinating which person is or isn't Spanish or Portuguese in the 16th century in Iberic peninsula during the Limpeza de sangre, and German, in the 20th century in Nazi Germany, after the signature of the Nuremberg Laws.

I'm looking for very accurate and unequivocal criteria as the number of ancestors by generation (parents, grandparents, great-grandparents) we must have obligatory to be recognized legaly by the community as its member.

Don't hesitate to tell me if my writing english is correct, I'm not a native speaker ?.

Thank you.

M.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,872
Portugal
That comparison seems odd. First of all welcome, I see that is your first post, then you could live in Portugal and Spain being a New-Christian.

The “Limpeza de Sangue” in Portugal or “Limpieza de sangre” in Spain was much more a religious question than a racial or biological. It was mostly but not solely seen as a protection against the crypto-Jews.

But most of all, besides that major difference, since for the Nazism was mostly a biological question, the other major difference are the consequences, being a New-Cristian wasn’t a dead sentence in the Iberian Peninsula, there were even Religious institutions where the New-Christians achieved good status as among the Jesuits. Even if the status of New-Christian could be a hold for social climbing.

For Portugal see “Rigor e interesses: os estatutos de limpeza de sangue em Portugal” /

“Rigor and interests: the blood cleansing statutes in Portugal”: http://www.catedra-alberto-benveniste.org/_fich/15/artigo_Fernanda_Olival.pdf or https://dspace.uevora.pt/rdpc/bitstream/10174/2537/1/rigor e interesse os estatutos da limpeza de sangue em Portugal - FOlival.pdf

“Um ponto, todavia, é inequívoco em toda a Península da Época Moderna: com este tipo de requisitos não se visava a pureza biológica da raça pelas suas qualidades genéticas2; tratava-se, ao invés, de um problema de natureza ideológico-religiosa, com forte impacto na estruturação social e política. Além disso, e como se fez notar, não se limitava a segregar a ascendência judaica, embora esta fosse a mais temida.” p.152

Google translation:

“One point, however, is unmistakable throughout the Peninsula of the Modern Era: these kinds of requirements were not aimed at the biological purity of the breed by its genetic qualities2; Rather, it was a problem of an ideological-religious nature, with a strong impact on social and political structuring. Moreover, and as noted, it was not limited to segregating Jewish ancestry, although it was the most feared. ” p.152
 
Sep 2019
3
Reims
You're right partly. I went a little too fast. We can not draw a complete parallel as I drew between that two era. However, commonly, we find an identical legal way to discrimate, but much less intensively in modern Iberia than in nazi Germany. And in nazi Germany, there wouldn't have had the biological question without the ideological question, the latter dating from the Middle Age and particularly refreshed by the political-economic question after the 1929 crisis.

So I restrict my question around the racial criteria of the Nuremberg Laws. My questions are still valuable.

Thank you Tulius.
 

Tulun

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
3,860
Western Eurasia
It is not strictly related but I found it bizarre and interesting how the "racial criteria" was defined in the Ofner Stadtrecht (Lawbook of Buda), a German majority free royal town in medieval Hungary. There it was prescribed that among other conditions the town judge (Stadtrichter) had to be a German man from all his 4 ancestors (=all his grandparents)
der sol sein ein deütscher man von allen seinen vier annen
MDZ-Reader | Band | Ofner Stadtrecht von MCCXLIV - MCCCCXXI / Michnay, Endre Dániel | Ofner Stadtrecht von MCCXLIV - MCCCCXXI / Michnay, Endre Dániel

I never dig more deeply in the topic but it would be interesting to research if there were similar provisions in other medieval German law books, particularily those adopted and modified Eastern Europe, where they interacted with other ethnic groups (in Buda obviously it were the rival Hungarian burghers with whom they competed for the control of the town, but I imagine similar rivalries could arise in Poland, Bohemia too in German dominated towns). But I don't know the answer.
 
Aug 2019
10
Belgium
You're right partly. I went a little too fast. We can not draw a complete parallel as I drew between that two era. However, commonly, we find an identical legal way to discrimate, but much less intensively in modern Iberia than in nazi Germany. And in nazi Germany, there wouldn't have had the biological question without the ideological question, the latter dating from the Middle Age and particularly refreshed by the political-economic question after the 1929 crisis.

So I restrict my question around the racial criteria of the Nuremberg Laws. My questions are still valuable.

Thank you Tulius.
As far as I know, the status of "Rassenjude" was determined by the
You're right partly. I went a little too fast. We can not draw a complete parallel as I drew between that two era. However, commonly, we find an identical legal way to discrimate, but much less intensively in modern Iberia than in nazi Germany. And in nazi Germany, there wouldn't have had the biological question without the ideological question, the latter dating from the Middle Age and particularly refreshed by the political-economic question after the 1929 crisis.

So I restrict my question around the racial criteria of the Nuremberg Laws. My questions are still valuable.

Thank you Tulius.
The Nuremberg laws were about preserving the purity of the Aryan race, so not specifically concerned with Jews, but also about not intermingling the pure Arian race with "Roma", "Slavs", "Negro" and other "inferior" racial goups.
Is was all based on the pseudo science of Lombroso and other 19th. century racial scientists. The SS had a specialist organisation to determine who were and who were not Jews or Roma, or Negroid, or Slav, known as the Ahnenerbe Stelle.

IMO, the particularly violent hatred of the Germans post WW1 concerning Jews had more to do with blaming the "Jewish cosmopolitan conspiracy" for the loss of the war than any racial mumbo jumbo. Nothing particularly German about that, just read up on the problems the British Labour party is in, anno 2019.
 

Chlodio

Forum Staff
Aug 2016
4,442
Dispargum
..., just read up on the problems the British Labour party is in, anno 2019.
Welcome to Historum, Gelbschnabel. You're probably not aware of our policy against discussing post-1991 politics. Our experience is that Historum members are often unable to discuss recent politics dispassionately, objectively, and without emotion. Also, history requires a certain amount of distance before any perspective or context is possible. You can read more about our policies here:

https://historum.com/threads/summary-of-the-rules.179686/
 
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