Really successful expansion plus settler colonialism

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
14,253
SoCal
#41
Whole Middle Asia was relatively sparse populated. Whole its population was equal to several regions in mainland Russia.Demographic explosion was only after WWII here. So Russia could colonized them too.Tsar government's plan was to irrigate new lands and to settle them by Russian colonists. Now larger part of lands were irrigated in XX century. So if this plan was executed even Uzbeks and Tajiks wouldnt be majority in their country.
How many Slavs do you think would have lived in Central Asia in 2019 had this plan actually been carried out to fruition?

Also, I was hoping to also have Russia acquire the green areas in northern Iran and northern Afghanistan on these maps:





In addition tot his, don't forget about Mongolia and Xinjiang! Heck, I might even go for Tibet as well if Britain would let me--which I strongly doubt!
 
Jan 2014
990
Rus
#42
In 1950s Soviet government gave lands on the plain to mountainous folks of Dagestan. So in the begining of the XXI century more than half of Avars and near the half of Dargins lived on the plain. (Before 1950 near 100% of them lived in mountains).
 
Likes: Futurist
Jan 2014
990
Rus
#44
One would think that the coastal areas of Anatolia would have been more attractive to Russian settlers than mountainous areas are, though. Out of the territories that Russia acquired from the Ottomans in 1878, only Batumi was actually located on the coast.
Anyway i dont see necessity to seize extra land from Ottomans. Even Konstantinopol. Russian Empire was too complex without it and had other lands to settle.

Although there were such plots:

1280px-Peace-conference-memoranda-respecting-syria-arabia-palestine5.jpg
 
Jan 2014
990
Rus
#45
How many Slavs do you think would have lived in Central Asia in 2019 had this plan actually been carried out to fruition?
My feeling that if Tsar's politics wasnt stop in 1917 than near half of population of modern Uzbekistan and Tajicistan and Turkmenia would be Europen (much of them Russian). So if modern population of Uzbekistan is 33 mln (most of them Uzbeks and some Tajiks), than it could be something like 10 mln Russians, 3 mln other Europeans (Tatars,Germans, Jews, Armenians etc) and 17 mln native Uzbeks and Tajiks. In other words situation here would be similar to situation in modern Xinjiang where 40% Chinese now.
 
Likes: Futurist
Jan 2014
990
Rus
#46
How many Slavs do you think would have lived in Central Asia in 2019 had this plan actually been carried out to fruition?

Also, I was hoping to also have Russia acquire the green areas in northern Iran and northern Afghanistan on these maps:



Russia seized green part of Iran in 1723. But later whole our army extinct by diseases and these lands were returned to Iran.

Several thousands of Russian settlers appeared in Astrabad province (near modern Turkmenia border) in 1910s. But they were expelled after 1917.
 
Jan 2014
990
Rus
#47
In addition tot his, don't forget about Mongolia and Xinjiang! Heck, I might even go for Tibet as well if Britain would let me--which I strongly doubt!
Xinjiang, Tibet, Afghanistan - definitively no chance.

There were plan to seize and settle Manchuria before Russian-Japan war. This project called Yellow Russia. But i am not sure was it possible even if the case of Russian victory.

Chinese Emperors from Manchurian dinasty disallow Chinesean settlements in Manchuria. Thats why population was sparse here. Something like several millions, most of them in south part. It was not much problem for Russia to detach same volumes for settlement in the abstract. But i am not sure that Russia could stop rapid Chinese migration there. I read that building of KVZhD spurred much more Chinesian but not Russian migration. And as i know population of Manchukuo was already near 30 mln with vast Chinesian majority.

By the way. China may be example of successful expansion and colonialism too. Many of modern chinesian lands were settled in XIX-XX centures. For example much more than 100 mln Chinesian living now in former Manchuria and Mongolia. But in still in XIX century there were no Chinesians here.
 
Jan 2014
990
Rus
#48
Map of languages in Dagestan
dagestan4.jpg

Red line is edge of mountains where. Most of the folks lived south from it till 1950s.

Source: Карта языков Дагестана
 
Aug 2014
151
New York, USA
#49
What about the Caucasus, Central Asia, et cetera?
How populated were they? I wouldn't be surprised if those territories were of comparable population densities as European "core" Russia. Its hard to colonize lands that are just as densely populated as your original lands to begin with...
Russia was and still is not densely populated at all. You can probably fit all of the ethnic Russians into Krasnodar krai to get a population density comparable to western European states.
Of course, the Russian government is structured in such a way that makes land/apartments expensive in a country that has plenty of it and builds 10-storey crammed apartment complexes next to... empty fields. :upsidedown:
 
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Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
14,253
SoCal
#50
Anyway i dont see necessity to seize extra land from Ottomans. Even Konstantinopol. Russian Empire was too complex without it and had other lands to settle.

Although there were such plots:

View attachment 14499
I was simply thinking of acquiring some territory with a warm climate and with a coastline so that it could eventually become Russia's Florida.
 

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