Religious fanatics are rational?

Nov 2014
287
ph
#1
When people say that Christian or Muslim fundamentalists are irrational, is it because they are only viewing things from a purely secular materialistic point of view, otherwise their views are entirely rational viewed within their logical world view? So all that is needed for rationaloty is for a premise to generally match a conclusion, and in this Islamic fundamentalists pass this test, so they are in fact perfectly rational?
 
Jan 2019
43
US
#2
I've wondered something along these lines before. If an interested Divine Authority exists and our relationship with Him has effect, it is only rational to be utterly devoted to Him to the exclusion and even the subversion of all else (fundamentalism). When I see tepid theists (and consider my own tepid religious sentiments), I can't help but wonder at the irrationality of it - I mean, if what I profess is true, these beliefs should be far more present in my thoughts and actions. If a Divine Being and a hereafter exist, after all, does anything else matter in comparison? With most religions, it's a matter of a mere century on earth at most compared to an infinity afterwards. So, in my mind, yes. If the premises of belief are rational, then the fundamentalist view (being in strict accordance with belief) is also rational - the only rational view, in fact.

With criticisms of "religious fundamentalists" in the common usage of the term, though, I think it's the premises themselves that are usually frowned upon as irrational rather than the extent to which people act on their belief systems. Although there is a certain level of utilitarian moral apathy that is expected from individuals in modern society, so I imagine that some criticisms do stem from the idea that beliefs that are discordant with society should be watered down.
 
Mar 2019
53
Victoria, Australia
#3
I think irrational may be the wrong term here, or at least in certain cases. Perhaps it may simply be perceived as irrationality whilst it is instead a form of many possible different things varying from devotion/faith to narrow-mindedness and anything in between really. Not saying there are no fundamentalists or irrationality (or combinations thereof), but that this may certainly be a factor here. This also applies to the opposite camp(s) such as atheism whom may well, for example, refuse to believe in a divine being or the fundamentalist aspects of it even if there was a sure proof sitting in front of them. They may refuse it because it goes against their ideas, their devotion or faith in themselves or science or whatever, or any numerous other reasons. They may believe that science is completely above reproach and cannot be questioned. That, is in itself a form of fundamentalism, perhaps if a religious one depending on how they interact with it.

what is irrational though is an altogether different point of view. Rational thought implies, I think, that you can think of a perspective and accept whichever you believe is true or appears to be true based upon a set of evidence or otherwise and dictated by your own reasoning and logic. If you altogether refuse the logic or reasoning of another point outright without consideration that it prevents your from forming an reasonable understanding of that situation (i.e removes your choice ---> You have chosen to remove the choice for yourself). Therefore, I think you could say you are being rational about the reasoning you were given since you refuse all others outright - which in itself could be described as an irrational action.
 

specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
2,819
Australia
#4
When people say that Christian or Muslim fundamentalists are irrational, is it because they are only viewing things from a purely secular materialistic point of view, otherwise their views are entirely rational viewed within their logical world view? So all that is needed for rationaloty is for a premise to generally match a conclusion, and in this Islamic fundamentalists pass this test, so they are in fact perfectly rational?
In your terms, yes. But not to the fellow members of the same religion that ARE NOT fanatics , I assume THEY would think that they are more 'rational' .

Fanaticism is out of balance ; outside the boundary , that is , there are qualities that lead us to improvement and advancement but when those same qualities get out of balance, they lead us into darkness and ignorance and restrict the human spirit and freedom

This is displayed better in a circular arrangement with the things I list below all coming to a center of light and enlightenment ( within the boundary ) and all radiating out from the boundary into darkness and ignorance . Here I will just list them . The qualities are based on paths and practices in Yoga and religion, east and west ;

Learning by way of and practicing via ...................................................... 'negative manifestation'

Knowledge ( Gnana Yoga , Kabbalah, studying scripture ) ................ insanity.

Will ( Raja yoga, Sacred Magic, Daoist 'cultivation; , etc .) ....................... obsession.

Love ( Bhakti yoga, acts and rituals of worship ) ..................................... fanaticism

Courage ( Hatha yoga, trials and tests of initiation / ceremonies ............ fear / ' paralysis '

Speech ( Mantra Yoga, prayer ) ....................................................................... gossip

Work ( kama Yoga, acts of service ) .............................................................. idleness / laziness .

We can see that systems based on love, in religion or interpersonal, when ut of balance and taken to an extreme by themselves result in fanatcism .
 

specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
2,819
Australia
#5
I've wondered something along these lines before. If an interested Divine Authority exists and our relationship with Him has effect, it is only rational to be utterly devoted to Him to the exclusion and even the subversion of all else (fundamentalism). When I see tepid theists (and consider my own tepid religious sentiments), I can't help but wonder at the irrationality of it - I mean, if what I profess is true, these beliefs should be far more present in my thoughts and actions. If a Divine Being and a hereafter exist, after all, does anything else matter in comparison? With most religions, it's a matter of a mere century on earth at most compared to an infinity afterwards. So, in my mind, yes. If the premises of belief are rational, then the fundamentalist view (being in strict accordance with belief) is also rational - the only rational view, in fact.

With criticisms of "religious fundamentalists" in the common usage of the term, though, I think it's the premises themselves that are usually frowned upon as irrational rather than the extent to which people act on their belief systems. Although there is a certain level of utilitarian moral apathy that is expected from individuals in modern society, so I imagine that some criticisms do stem from the idea that beliefs that are discordant with society should be watered down.
I think your 'apathy' to your own 'religious survival' stems from the fact that inside, some part of you, relises it all came about due to your socio-cultural conditioning . Many fanatics do not have this realization - on any level.
 
Oct 2013
6,077
Planet Nine, Oregon
#6
Rationalism:
"A belief or theory that opinions and actions should be based on reason and knowledge rather than on religious belief or emotional response."
So scientific method would be the essence of it; kryptonite for supreme beings.
 

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