Responsibility for Slave trade is African?

Nemowork

Ad Honorem
Jan 2011
8,443
South of the barcodes
Not only Arabs. Many Slavs, my ancestors, were sold at the slave markets of Istanbul.

Sadly, we have to admit that without tacit agreement of local African chieftains, African slave trade would not have been possible. You simply can not imprison or abduct that many people.

However, the mere fact that there were Africans participating in slave trade(who were at a different level of development), or Arabs who were slave traders for a long time (can't answer for Islam), does not in any way exonerate the final leg, white Christians, who were advanced and educated enough to have moral compass, whose supreme law said "to secure the blessings of liberty", and who, sadly, willingly partook in it.
the problem is that moral compass didnt exist at first. Slavery was something that happened to anyone. English could end up as Spanish galley slaves, Spanish and Italians could end up as slaves of the barbary pirates, Caucasians (the mountains not the colour) could end up as slave in Crimea or Istanbul.
If you were a sailor it was a hazard like shipwrecks. If your country fought a war then prisoners would end up working for the winners, that s how many Scots and Irish ended up in the new world.

Its only really when the industrial revolution starts that slavery kicks up a gear, the cotton gin makes slave plantations economically viable, cheap guns,cloth, tools and trinkets make trading possible. What had been an underlying fact of life started to run out of control while at the same time industrialisation offered a viable alternative to slavery and allowed the moralists to have a valid economic incentive to ending the trade.

You cant follow a moral compass if no-one has invented it yet.
 
the problem is that moral compass didnt exist at first. Slavery was something that happened to anyone. English could end up as Spanish galley slaves, Spanish and Italians could end up as slaves of the barbary pirates, Caucasians (the mountains not the colour) could end up as slave in Crimea or Istanbul.
If you were a sailor it was a hazard like shipwrecks. If your country fought a war then prisoners would end up working for the winners, that s how many Scots and Irish ended up in the new world.

Its only really when the industrial revolution starts that slavery kicks up a gear, the cotton gin makes slave plantations economically viable, cheap guns,cloth, tools and trinkets make trading possible. What had been an underlying fact of life started to run out of control while at the same time industrialisation offered a viable alternative to slavery and allowed the moralists to have a valid economic incentive to ending the trade.

You cant follow a moral compass if no-one has invented it yet.
First people need to acknowledge facts. #1 The history of the slave trade is told from it's slavers. #2 I have proof many things are omitted or just plain lies. For instance did you know slavery in Africa was much different than in America. Did you know that most of the people who were enslaved we're already in America. They weren't even Africans but they were black.... You say prove it. Go to library of Congress and you'll find a book that shows people here in America long before Columbus and they were black indigenous people of America .

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Nov 2010
7,666
Cornwall
First people need to acknowledge facts. #1 The history of the slave trade is told from it's slavers. #2 I have proof many things are omitted or just plain lies. For instance did you know slavery in Africa was much different than in America. Did you know that most of the people who were enslaved we're already in America. They weren't even Africans but they were black.... You say prove it. Go to library of Congress and you'll find a book that shows people here in America long before Columbus and they were black indigenous people of America .
Not sure you are arguing the same point as Nemo to be honest.

Anything to do with America is the very last chapter (excluding modern slavery) in a very big book on 'Slavery'. It's not all about America.
 

Nemowork

Ad Honorem
Jan 2011
8,443
South of the barcodes
For instance did you know slavery in Africa was much different than in America
Yes, in Africa they went out, caught slaves, marched them to the coast, warehoused them and sold them, the Americans bought and transported them on ships, thats entirely different systems.


Did you know that most of the people who were enslaved we're already in America. They weren't even Africans but they were black.... You say prove it. Go to library of Congress and you'll find a book that shows people here in America long before Columbus and they were black indigenous people of America .
I'm not sure if youve noticed but theres a bit of a difference between the mende and the Yaqui for in stance. In fact if you compared the two, both sides would probably be a bit irate.

Unless you're talking about those Olmec heads in Mexico and taking a really loose definition of America?
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,686
Portugal
You say prove it. Go to library of Congress and you'll find a book that shows people here in America long before Columbus and they were black indigenous people of America .
The Library of Congress is… a Library. There are books there as it is expected. Sending a person there to read a book is not a prove of anything. By the way this book is so rare that only exists there? Does it have a title? An author?

Yes, in Africa they went out, caught slaves, marched them to the coast, warehoused them and sold them, the Americans bought and transported them on ships, thats entirely different systems.
Slavery in Africa preceded the Atlantic slave trade, most probably by several Millenniums, since slavery in an old institution. Slavery is also an umbrella designation that covers quite different status, so strictly speaking, erinshavonne34 quoted sentence is quite correct. Even a Broken Clock is Right Twice a Day.

Unless you're talking about those Olmec heads in Mexico and taking a really loose definition of America?
You just opened the Pandora box mentioning the Olmecs!!!

Note: By the way Mexico is as much in America as the USA, even if often America is the short for USA the continent didn't changed its name.
 
Mar 2016
783
Antalya
Not only Arabs. Many Slavs, my ancestors, were sold at the slave markets of Istanbul.

Sadly, we have to admit that without tacit agreement of local African chieftains, African slave trade would not have been possible. You simply can not imprison or abduct that many people.

However, the mere fact that there were Africans participating in slave trade(who were at a different level of development), or Arabs who were slave traders for a long time (can't answer for Islam), does not in any way exonerate the final leg, white Christians, who were advanced and educated enough to have moral compass, whose supreme law said "to secure the blessings of liberty", and who, sadly, willingly partook in it.
Are you claiming there were local Slav collaborators in slave trade by Crimeans? Furthermore, if history is an indicator, being advanced and educated has nothing to do with inhumane practices and brutality.
 
Last edited:
Sep 2015
1,805
England
The slaves exported to the Islamic world were predominantly captured and sold by Islamized Africans, not Arabs.
Alas, this is indeed the case. One reading of all this was that before Arabic/Islamic travellers arrived in sub-saharan Africa, slavery in Africa did indeed exist, throughout Africa, as you might expect - in fact apparently by the ruling chieftans and leading persons of a tribe/group. Mass slavery where everyone in the village owns a slave, was a concept introduced by Islam, and which encouraged slave raiding over large areas of west Africa, the Futa Jalon for example, and not only for the rapacious Arabic/Islamic slave market, but the more northern areas of sub-saharan Africa. Tribal feuds, tribal wars, tends to mean captives, and captives means POWs, or slaves, as may indeed have been the case from the earliest times. It appears universal to all areas of the world, and the entire human race. And everyone has been enslaved, and everyone has enslaved. And there are just no winners in all this.
 
Sep 2015
1,805
England
...So there was always the issue of bias and distortion at work with Asante, particularly in British accounts, and especially in those British accounts from the mid to late 19th century.
I'd be very interested to hear what evidence you have for this claim. It is not something the British are in any way known for. When an English gentleman gave his word, he meant it. It was part of what being a gentleman was about; especially during this period and throughout the c.20th.
 
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