Revised History of the Bulgarians (Thracian connection)

Nov 2012
881
Bulgaria, Black Sea region
#1
I am opening this thread for discussion of the possible connection between ancient Thracians and the modern-day Bulgarians.
One of the topics is the deliberate adulteration of Bulgarian history by a number of Bulgarian historians which directly affects the knowledge of Bulgarian people with regards to their true origin and heritage.


As an introduction, I want to present some ancient sources which speak about Bulgarian people:

- Herodotus writes that the Getae are Thracian people.
- Strabo writes that the Moesi and the Getae are from the same family and speak the same language.
- Cassius Dio writes that the Getae tribe are part of the Scythians.
- Procopius writes that the Getae and Sarmatians are from the same origin.
- Stephanus of Byzantium claims that the Scythians are Thracian people.


V-VI century

- Ioannes Malalas: "The so called Achilles went with Atreidai and led his own army of three thousand men, then called Myrmidons and now Bulgarians" - page 97 http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....raphia_(CSHB_Dindorfii_Recensione),_GR_LT.pdf picture from the text in Greek: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150315761464099&set=o.122376701166845&type=1&theater

- Michael Attaleiates: History - ''the Moesi ... are certainly Bulgarians who later received their new name ... Bulgarians Myrmidons ..."

- John Zonaras: ''Paeonians - Latins or Thracian people of Macedonia. These are so-called Paeonians. Paeonians were Bulgarians. "

- Johannes Tzetza: ''Pyros and Akamas (native) of the Thracian Hellespont, Maronietza Evfimos son of Treziius, Pirehmie, who was of the Paeonians they were all from the Bulgarians, from those of the river Axios, also called Vardar'' (see photo with Greek text).

XI century

- ''Bulgarians who are named Thracians according to the previous (old) monuments'' - „Hinc iter aggressi per fines Vulgariorum, quos vocitant Thracas, ut habent monumenta priorum“ - Fulcher of Chartres, a French priest, (a description of the first crusade in 1096)

III-IV century

- Mavro Orbin cites evidence of Marcus Aurelius Kasiodor that Bulgarians fought with the Romans about 390 AD.

- Cassiodorus writes that the Bulgarians are old Moesian or Illyrian people

- Ennodius Ticinensis (473-524, Bishop, court historian of the Gothic King Theodoric) indicate that Bulgarians are old Moesian and Illyrian people.

- 4th century map (see photo) by St. Jerome (331-420) - Mesia hec & Vulgaria (Misia here and Bulgaria). It is composed by even older maps - Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea (270 to 33, called the "father of church history." The map is preserved in a copy of the 12th century. http://letopisec.blog.bg/photos/123281/original/Karta_Ieronim_4_vek22222.jpg

I-II century

-Flavius Josephus writes ''Dacians called Bulgarians''

In addition:

- Ravennatis Anоnymi Cosmographia: „Inter vero Tratiam vel Macedoniam et Mysiam inferiorem modo Bulgari habitant, qui ex super scripta maiore Scythia egressi sunt.” https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Karte_Ravennat.jpg
http://www.venstar.de/extra/App0003a.bmp

- Demetrios Chomateno: Brief Life of Clement Ohridski - ''This great Father was a native from the European Moesians, people usually known as Bulgarians. They were displaced in the old days by the military power of Alexander of placement of Brusa, Olympus to the North Atlantic and the Dead Sea, and after a long time with terrible army crossed the Danube and invaded all the neighboring areas: Pannonia and Dalmatia, Thrace and Illyricum, and and much of Macedonia and Thessaly''
In Greek: Äèìèòðè Õîìàòèàí - Êðàòêî æèòèå íà Êëèìåíò Îõðèäñêè


View attachment 5525

Saint_Jerome_4th_century.jpg
 
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Comet

Forum Staff
Aug 2006
8,688
IA
#2
I will be watching this thread like a hawk. Any nationalistic bickering that comes of this will be dealt with accordingly. There will be no warnings.
 

Salah

Forum Staff
Oct 2009
23,284
Maryland
#3
This is not my area of specialty. But could you point out to me where in his writings Josephus ever used the word 'Bulgarian'?
 
Nov 2012
881
Bulgaria, Black Sea region
#4
This is not my area of specialty. But could you point out to me where in his writings Josephus ever used the word 'Bulgarian'?
According to the source I have it is written in some of his works ''The history of the Jewish War'', ''Jewish antiquities'', ''Against Apion''. However, the author refers to the oldest translation of his works made in Old Bulgarian (Old Church Slavonic) where it is written ''дакии нарицасыи блъгаре... син ахилеоусъ имыи род своа, иже нарицахоу са тогда моуръмидонесъ, нынъ болгареи тысоущами треми''.

I believe that this statement is from ''Jewish antiquities'' which has been translated from Byzantine into Slavic in the Preslav Literary School.
 
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Feb 2009
631
Republic of Macedonia
#5
I will be watching this thread like a hawk. Any nationalistic bickering that comes of this will be dealt with accordingly. There will be no warnings.
Good, but nationalists have to bear the consequences for their statements and not to be closed threads because of them. Nice thread.
 
Nov 2012
881
Bulgaria, Black Sea region
#6
I always wondered about the name Bulgarian and its meaning.

In the past some authors relate the name Bulgarian to old Roman ''Vulgares'' which has the meaning of ''Vulgar'' people or modern ''Bulgars'' in some Latin languages where the names has negative meaning and refers to savage and/or barbarian people. Another part of scientists say that the name has Turkic meaning which in Bulgarian is translated as "буламач'' meaning ''mixed'' people in kind of negative way. Others say that the name is derived from Slavic ''бог'' (god) and the meaning is ''people of god''. Others related it to Slavic ''благъ'' meaning ''kind people''. None of these is officially recognized.

I tried to do some research and found out some interesting information. I am not a linguist and I will be happy if people familiar with the subjects give their opinions.

Bulgaria - Bulgarian - Bulgarians
България - Българин/Българка - Бърлгари
Βουλγαρία - Βούλγαρος - Βούλγαροι

In Greek the name ''βοῦς'' has the meaning of bull, ox, sheep, or cattle. My first thought was that the Greek used it to refer to Bulgarians as cattle and sheep, which of course is kind of funny if you don't take it personally. However, I found that the Greeks sometimes used the name as reference to DIONYSOS - Vugenes, Bugenes, Boægenæs, Bugenæs, or Bugonæs (Βουγενες, ΒΟΥΓΕΝΕΣ, βουγενής, βουγονής) and Vukeros or Boukeros (Βουκέρως) meaning ''born of an ox'', ''ox horned'', ''ox-sprung'', ''horned like an ox or cow''.
Dionysos - The Epithets II - www.HellenicGods.org


In Greek,

βοῦς ---> cow, ox, cattle

derived terms:

βουκόλος (boukolos)
βουστροφηδόν (boustrophēdon)
βούτυρον (boutūron)
βούτυρος (boutūros)

PIE: *gʷṓws
Sanskrit: गो (go)
-Hindi: गाय (gāy)
-Telugu: గోవు (gōvu)
-Urdu: گای (gāy)
Latin: bos
Old English: cū (cow)
Celtic: *bōws, *bow-
-Old Irish: bó
-Middle Welsh: bu "oxen"
-Brythonic: *boukkā
Iranian
-Avestan: ������ (gao)
-Baluchi: گوک (gúk, gok)
-Kurdish: ga (“oxen”), garran (“cattle herd”), gamêş, golik (“calf”)
-Mazanderani: گو (gow)
Italic
-Catalan: bou
-Galician: boi
-Italian: bove, bue
-Old French: buef
-Portuguese: boi
-Romanian: bou
-Sardinian (Campidanese): boi
-Spanish: buey
Slavic: *govędo < *gʷew-n̥d-

???? - Wiktionary
Appendix:proto-Indo-European/g??ws - Wiktionary


In Bulgarian,

- бик (bik) - ox
- крава (krava) - cow
- говеда (govedа) - cattle

Proto-Bulgarian: быкъ
Old Church Slavonic: *bykъ
Turkic: *būqa

English - bull
Lithuanian - bulius
German - stier, bulle
Polish - byk
Russian - бык
Turkish - boğa
Hungarian - bika
Czech - byk

Of course I am not sure if there is any connection at all. But maybe there is a chance that the name Bulgarian is derived from the word for ''bull'' meaning ''ox horned'' or something similar.

Unlike other language the name for ''God'' in Slavic and Bulgarian is ''БОГ'' which is similar to Iranic languages ''bagas'' (Persian), ''baɣa'' (Avestan), '' βαγo'' (Bactrian), ''βɣ'' (Sogdian), ''bhagaṣ'' (Indian).

In Bulgarian and Slavic we have other names of ''God'', for example:

- бог (god)
- боже (Christ)
- господ (Lord)

''Боже Господи'' - My God!
''Бога ми'' - Upon my Sam!

- from ''бог'' we have ''божествен'' (divine) and ''божество'' (divinity)
- from ''господ'' we have ''господин'' (Mr.) and ''господар'' (master)

- similar to ''божествен'' (divine) we have ''блаженство'' (bliss) from ''благо'' (good)

I believe that the difference is obvious between the two words as the one refers to the divinity of Christ and the other to his supremacy and power. As far as I understand the Iranic word ''bagas'' refers to ''the master'' or ''the one who distributes'' which is identical with Slavic ''gospod'' but not the same as Slavic ''бог'' and ''боже''.

The word ''бог'' is given motion by the sound ''ж'' and transformed to ''боже'', such as:

''мога'' (can) ---> ''може'' (can)
''съд'' (container) ---> ''съдържа'' (contain)
''под'' (floor) ---> ''поддържа'' (maintain)
''държа'' (hold) ---> ''издържа'' (endure)
''мъж'' (man) ---> ''омъжа'' / ''женя'' (get married)
''жив'' (alive) ---> ''живея'' (live)
''жътва'' (harvest)
''живот'' (life)
''жажда'' (thirst)
''желание'' (desire)
''жадуване'' (eagerness)
''рождение'' (nativity, birthday)
''женитба'' (marriage)
''жизненост'' (vigor)

We can see that the sound ''Ж'' (Zh, /ʒ/ or /ʃ/ ) itself forms a number of essential words or gives motion to normal words or puts them in action. Such as ''бог'' and ''боже''.

Here comes the question what is ''Бо'' (Bo) in ''Бог'' (God)? Is it the symbolism of the ''sacred bull'' so commonly worshiped in the ancient past in Mesopotamia, Egypt, Anatolia, Crete, Indus Valley, Cyprus, Levant, Hellas, and Roman Empire?

Here are some of the myths related to sacred Bull in Greek mythology:

- ''In the Olympian cult, Hera's epithet Bo-opis is usually translated "ox-eyed" Hera, but the term could just as well apply if the goddess had the head of a cow, and thus the epithet reveals the presence of an earlier, though not necessarily more primitive, iconic view.''

- ''Dionysus was another god of resurrection who was strongly linked to the bull. In a cult hymn from Olympia, at a festival for Hera, Dionysus is also invited to come as a bull, "with bull-foot raging." "Quite frequently he is portrayed with bull horns, and in Kyzikos he has a tauromorphic image," Walter Burkert relates, and refers also to an archaic myth in which Dionysus is slaughtered as a bull calf and impiously eaten by the Titans.''

- ''To the Egyptians TAURUS, The Bull, symbolised both Osiris and his sister Isis who were represented as a bull-god and cow-goddess respectively.''

- In Greek legend, Taurus is identified with the disguise adopted by Zeus in yet another of his amorous adventures. On this occasion, the god had fallen in love with the beautiful Europa, daughter of King Agenor, as she strolled with her companions on the seashore. He suddenly appeared amongst them as a magnificent white bull, but one which was so gentle that they felt no fear. Europa and her maidens gathered flowers and made garlands which they hung around the animal's neck and, such was their trust in his docility, that Europa climbed upon his back. However, at this moment, the bull plunged into the sea and swam away furiously with the terrified girl. When they reached Crete, Zeus revealed his true identity and ravished her. She was to bear him three sons, the first of which, Minos, introduced the bull cult to Crete.''


In conclusion,

Clearly, the bull itself is another wild animal however ancient people saw the divine of the bull in the constellation Taurus, the Pleiades (also called seven sisters) and the Hyades. About the number seven and the Pleiades we already have a lot of information as well the worship of the bull is well-known. The question is weather the name ''Bulgarian'' is derived from the ''divinity of the bull'' and connected to constellation Taurus, which sign ''Y'' (the bull sign) is central in Pliska rozette, as well major sign in Vinca culture, and first letter of the glagolithic alphabet. With regards to the alphabet it is called ''азбука'' from ''азъ'' and ''боукы''.

What is interesting is that Vinca culture based in Balkans and one of the oldest (5500 - 4500) also worshiped the bull and most of the signs are depicting the Taurus constellation which can be later seen both in Thracian and Bulgarian cultures.

---> ''The Vinča and Cucuteni held cult beliefs which were partially based on the idea of a unity of the bull and ram (or cattle and sheep), with each animal representingthe masculine and feminine aspects of nature. The bull was signified largely byangular shapes, such as the zig-zag, lozenge; whilst the ram predominantly by acurl or spiral.''
http://www.academia.edu/2374429/The...e_Vinca_and_Cucuteni_in_Europe_and_the_Aegean

In the next post I will provide pictures which confirm my last statement.
 

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Kirialax

Ad Honorem
Dec 2009
4,716
Blachernai
#7
Sonrisa, what makes you think that we can trust ancient and medieval historians who intentionally used archaising terms as part of their imitation of classical literature?
 
Nov 2012
881
Bulgaria, Black Sea region
#8
Sonrisa, what makes you think that we can trust ancient and medieval historians who intentionally used archaising terms as part of their imitation of classical literature?
What about other countries, don't they use ancient and medieval historians when forming the history of their nation? What else can Bulgarians use as sources to their past except for these authors?

If we have to be fair Bulgaria has the right to investigate upon the fact that ancient authors described the people of ''&#914;&#959;&#973;&#955;&#947;&#945;&#961;&#959;&#953;'' and then decide which sources are reliable and which not. But is it fair to hide such sources from the Bulgarian population or even misinterpret their meaning?
 

Kirialax

Ad Honorem
Dec 2009
4,716
Blachernai
#9
What about other countries, don't they use ancient and medieval historians when forming the history of their nation? What else can Bulgarians use as sources to their past except for these authors?

If we have to be fair Bulgaria has the right to investigate upon the fact that ancient authors described the people of ''&#914;&#959;&#973;&#955;&#947;&#945;&#961;&#959;&#953;'' and then decide which sources are reliable and which not. But is it fair to hide such sources from the Bulgarian population or even misinterpret their meaning?
This has nothing to do with rights and everything to do with whether the sources are valid. Given that most of what you've cited falls within the area of classical history, and are thus subject to classical ethnography, the accuracy and contemporary usefulness of those sources remains an open question.
 
Feb 2009
631
Republic of Macedonia
#10
As first, people don’t disappear, except there was made an exodus. If there had an exodus, then he for sure would be noticed, like this one:
“To the north this province of Cassaria faces a vast wilderness, stretching from the Don in the east to the Danube in the west, a two-months journey of a galloping horseman, one riding as the Tartars ride-a distance equal to that from Orleans to Paris- in a single day, But this land takes four months to traverse at the rate other folk generally ride. The whole land used to belong to the Cumani, who were called the Captae [Slavs?] But the Tartars wiped them out and slew all the Cumani except for a remnant which fled to the Kingdom of Hungary, to which they are subjects. By the Germans they are called Valana [Volhynia?], by Pliny [6.12 mentions thecastellum Cumania?], Isidore [9.2.94], and others the eastern Alans; their territory includes the Danube, Poland, and eastern Hungary.”
More: http://historum.com/european-history/53697-bulgars-bulgarians-61.html#post1532627?postcount=607

For Thracians, Illyrians and ancient Macedonians there are not evidences for some exodus.


V-VI century

- Ioannes Malalas: "The so called Achilles went with Atreidai and led his own army of three thousand men, then called Myrmidons and now Bulgarians" - page 97 http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....raphia_(CSHB_Dindorfii_Recensione),_GR_LT.pdf picture from the text in Greek: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150315761464099&set=o.122376701166845&type=1&theater
You think on this part:
Achiles itaque comitem sese Atridis adjunxit; secum habena in exercitu suo Myrmidonum, ( ita olim dicti, qui nunc Bulgari )
Achille accompanied with the sons of Atreus, has an army of Myrmidonians, (formerly called so, now the Bulgarians),

So, he is talking for the same people, once called Myrmodonians and today Bulgarians. Who was the same language they have spoken? We know that Bulgars lead by Asparuh come on Balkan for first time in 681y, before them had no any Bulgarians on Balkan. So Bulgarians mention by Malala couldn’t be the same with Aspruh’s Bulgars. Who were those Bulgarians same with Myrmodonians?


John Zonaras: ''Paeonians - Latins or Thracian people of Macedonia. These are so-called Paeonians. Paeonians were Bulgarians. "
-

Who were Paeonians? We’ll ask Justin the very same:

“MACEDONIA was formerly caned Emathia, from the name of king Emathion, of whose prowess the earliest proofs are extant in those parts. As the origin of this kingdom was but humble, so its limits were at first extremely narrow. The inhabitants were called Pelasgi,1 the country Paeonia. But in process of time, when, through the ability of their princes and the exertions of their subjects, they had conquered, first of all, the neighbouring tribes, and afterwards other nations and peoples, their dominions extended to the utmost boundaries of the east.2 In the region of Paeonia, which is now a portion of Macedonia”
Justin: Epitome of the Philippic History of Pompeius Trogus, Book 7



So who were those Bulgarians mention as same with Paeonians by Zonara? Have on mind that he lived in 12th and he know Byzantine theme Voulgaria on the territories of today Albania, Montenegro, R. Makedonia, Serbia, Greece and part of Bulgaria. Voulgaria then was lead by Komiti dynasty ,
File:Bulgarian uprising of Peter Delyan (1040-1041).svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_Bodin]Constantine Bodin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] look the picture


Last question for now, were they the same with Bulgars from first and second Bulgar empire?
 
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