Rigveda on Conquest of India by Vedic Aryans.

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Oct 2015
1,060
India
#62
Sorry for my question and my english
That's interesting, do you make difference between vedic period and hinduism?
After all, as far as I understand, Rishi Vishwamitra is postvedic person, he lives after that period, so, he could not be the author of the hymn

what's the catch?
Yes, there is differentiation.

Vedic Period (c.1500 - c.350 BCE):

is divided into two sub-period. First is "Early Vedic" covers the time during which the four Vedic Samhitas were composed (say 1500-100 BCE). Second is "Later Vedic" in which remaining Vedic literature was composed (say 1000-350 BCE). This Later Vedic extends till the point where Sanskrit language began following rules of Panini's Grammar (Ashtha-adhyayi).

Classical Sanskrit Period (c.350 BCE - c.1200 CE):

Sanskrit literature began following the rules laid down in Panini's Grammar.

Changes in practice of Religion in two periods:

Hindu religion as followed in Vedic Period and Classical Period has noticeable difference. It transformed itself in many ways.

In Vedic period, there was only Fire worship (Yajna). There were no temples. During Classical period, temple worship arose. Some Vedic gods & goddesses became less prominent (like Indra) while others became more prominent (Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh/Shiva). Every sect of Classical Hinduism says that it descends from Vedic religion, but ways of practice are different. Of course, the good-old Fire worship (Yajna) also continues.
 

Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,524
USA
#63
meghavan/megh-vahan means one who uses dark rainy clouds as vehicle.

as English say, why dont you piss off from this thread because you have nothing to contribute beside trolling ? maybe comeback later when you learn something, i suggest you to use burnol in case burn is too high.
Stay off from personal allegations. This is not your personal property that you ask someone to piss off. If anyone is trolling it is you.

Dude, learn a bit before you start posing to know a lot. There isn't Meghvahan for Indra in Rig Veda, there is Maghavan. The meaning of that word is "giver of wealth". And there is absolutely no Meghvahan in Rig Veda. Stop blabbering and show where that word is.

As for the OP, you got to find the most appropriate place to bury your favorite theory - forever.
 

Aatreya

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
3,524
USA
#64
Dear Aatreya,

Well I was referring to 3.33.

It is a lovely romantic hymn sung by Rishi Vishwamitra. He prays to Vipāś (Beas) River and Sutudri (Sutlej) River to reduce water-level to below the height of cart-axles enabling the Bhaaratas to cross the rivers. In return, the rivers ask him, the poet, not to forget them so that posterity will remember them for allowing the passage.

So Vishwamitra composed the hymn 3.33 about the two rivers and Bhaaratas fording them. And surprisingly, today, about 3500 years down the road, the hymn is still alive in our memory.

Please do offer your analysis.

Regards

Rajeev

Translation by Griffith:

8 Never forget this word of thine, O singer, which future generations shall reecho.
In hymns, O bard, show us thy loving kindness. Humble us not mid men. To thee be honour!

9 List quickly, Sisters, to the bard who cometh to you from far away with car and wagon.
Bow lowly down; be easy to be traversed stay, Rivers, with your floods below our axles.

10 Yea, we will listen to thy words, O singer. With wain and car from far away thou comest.
Low, like a nursing mother, will I bend me, and yield me as a maiden to her lover.

11 Soon as the Bharatas have fared across thee, the warrior band, urged on and sped by Indra,
Then let your streams flow on in rapid motion. I crave your favour who deserve our worship.

12 The warrior host, the Bharatas, fared over the singer won the favour of the Rivers.
Swell with your billows, hasting, pouring riches. Fill full your channels, and roll swiftly onward.

13 So let your wave bear up the pins, and ye, O Waters, spare the thongs;
And never may the pair of Bulls, harmless and sinless, waste away.

References:

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv03033.htm

http://www.ncert.nic.in/ncerts/l/fess105.pdf
Dear Rajeev,

Your courtesy is worth emulating.

But the confidence with which you claimed that the RV Sukta 3.33 illustrates movement of Aryans into India is anything but astounding ignorance. Even based on that pedestrian translation you quoted, there is no such conclusion possible.

I will post the translation of the Sukta after some time.
 
Likes: Rajeev

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
33,666
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#65
meghavan/megh-vahan means one who uses dark rainy clouds as vehicle.

as English say, why dont you piss off from this thread because you have nothing to contribute beside trolling ? maybe comeback later when you learn something, i suggest you to use burnol in case burn is too high.
If I see one more post like this, you will be suspended. There will be no further warnings.
 
May 2019
51
Earth
#66
Btw this guy is the notorious Gujarati Brahmin supremacist troll.
Nice sock Ashoka maurya, at least learn to hide you account history.

Everyone knows who you are here from your racism towards marathas and certain South Indian people.

As if trolling Pakistanis, Marathas, South indians, Punjabis on Reddit with 100 bihari sock account was not enough you started doing same thing here I see.
 
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May 2019
51
Earth
#67
Dear Rajeev,

Your courtesy is worth emulating.

But the confidence with which you claimed that the RV Sukta 3.33 illustrates movement of Aryans into India is anything but astounding ignorance. Even based on that pedestrian translation you quoted, there is no such conclusion possible.

I will post the translation of the Sukta after some time.
How's he an ignorant when he's quoting a sukta written by Vishwamitraand translated into English from Sanskrit by a person who knows Sanskrit ?

We can see same pattern in later stage migration and invasions by Tribes such as Huns, Kushans, Scythians, Greeks in ancient times and Khilji, Mughals, Afghans etc in medieval Age.

Do you have any argument to prove us or Rigveda false ?
 
May 2019
51
Earth
#68
Yes, there is differentiation.

Vedic Period (c.1500 - c.350 BCE):

is divided into two sub-period. First is "Early Vedic" covers the time during which the four Vedic Samhitas were composed (say 1500-100 BCE). Second is "Later Vedic" in which remaining Vedic literature was composed (say 1000-350 BCE). This Later Vedic extends till the point where Sanskrit language began following rules of Panini's Grammar (Ashtha-adhyayi).

Classical Sanskrit Period (c.350 BCE - c.1200 CE):

Sanskrit literature began following the rules laid down in Panini's Grammar.

Changes in practice of Religion in two periods:

Hindu religion as followed in Vedic Period and Classical Period has noticeable difference. It transformed itself in many ways.

In Vedic period, there was only Fire worship (Yajna). There were no temples. During Classical period, temple worship arose. Some Vedic gods & goddesses became less prominent (like Indra) while others became more prominent (Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh/Shiva). Every sect of Classical Hinduism says that it descends from Vedic religion, but ways of practice are different. Of course, the good-old Fire worship (Yajna) also continues.
Hi rajeev, is that true that it was Panini who laid down the rule that all the brahmin gotra must come from original saptarshis after he saw that brahmins during those times were making their own gotra rone kind of immortal/Famous ?

I have heard and read about this claim on several sites and books but I don't think that its true.
 

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
33,666
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#69
Btw this guy is the notorious Gujarati Brahmin supremacist troll.

Let me make something clear to you, and everyone else in this thread. I don't care who anyone is, or what they have been up to anywhere else on the internet. While here, you will all follow the rules of Historum. That means treating each other with respect, being civil and not posting insults or vulgarities. Violations of the rules will be met with suspensions. Is that clear to you all?

Furthermore, the moderators are NOT here to adjudicate on facts or the validity of your arguments. That is for you to do.

I don't much care for the conflicts between Indian castes, religions, regions, clans, tribes, or anything else. You will NOT bring these arguments to Historum. There will be no further warnings.
 
Jun 2019
34
ru
#70
The greater Indo-Gangetic culture was started by the settlers of Indus valley civilization.
Is it possible to assume, that Indus valley civilization was aryan civilization?

For example, there are toys like clay carts in archeology of Indus valley civilization and in Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex too, and lifetimes is comparable.

PS Also, all that cultures are based on plains, it could be horse-culture, skythian-like culture, saka-peoples. There are(apparently exactly Center and North I think) very common families like "saka" In India. Even Gautama Buddha is Shakyamuni ("Sage of the Shakyas")
 
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