Royal cadet branches that outshone the main royal branch?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
19,921
SoCal
#11
The Valois-Burgundy chaps outshone the Valois until Charles the Rash
That's a good point.

What do you think would have happened had the Valois-Burgundy line survived?

Restoring the strength of the Serb state, partially unifying all Serb lands and expanding Serbia to its largest ever extent etc. They were also big patrons of the Orthodox Church who venerates them as saints and given that the Church was the most influential Serb organization during Ottoman times, the myths about the Nemanjići spread among the Serbs and they are today the most celebrated Serb dynasty.
For pretty much building medieval Serbia. In the end they even declared it an Empire.... and then lost it all a few decades later and the dynasty went extinct. They have since been subjects of many legends, myths and attention from historians.
Very interesting! I will need to read up more on them! :)

Also, did the dynasty become completely extinct in the male line?
 

Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
5,209
Netherlands
#12
That's a good point.

What do you think would have happened had the Valois-Burgundy line survived?
Well they did survive and his daughter Maria the rich married the Habsburg heir and was the grandmother of Charles V. However had Charles survived, he probably would have started some other unwinnable war. Quite strange most people get wiser when they get older, but with him it seems to have gone the opposite direction. When his father was in charge, he continuously warned against Louis XI's machinations, but later on he got his mind set on the Middle Kingdom and forgot all prudence.
 
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
19,921
SoCal
#13
Well they did survive and his daughter Maria the rich married the Habsburg heir and was the grandmother of Charles V. However had Charles survived, he probably would have started some other unwinnable war. Quite strange most people get wiser when they get older, but with him it seems to have gone the opposite direction. When his father was in charge, he continuously warned against Louis XI's machinations, but later on he got his mind set on the Middle Kingdom and forgot all prudence.
I meant if the Valois-Burgundy male line would have survived--for instance, by having him have at least one surviving son.
 

Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
5,209
Netherlands
#14
I meant if the Valois-Burgundy male line would have survived--for instance, by having him have at least one surviving son.
Problem is that if Maria had been a boy, the situation would have been similar. France had no chance of taking territories in the low countries, but I think the old Burgundian lands would have been lost. Bit similar to what Philip the Fair achieved. That non-existent son would need to do 2 things: appease the cities in Flanders and Brabant and marry smart. But if he could do those two things I don't see why he could not retry the middle kingdom (but stop at Switzerland)
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
19,921
SoCal
#19
Problem is that if Maria had been a boy, the situation would have been similar. France had no chance of taking territories in the low countries, but I think the old Burgundian lands would have been lost. Bit similar to what Philip the Fair achieved. That non-existent son would need to do 2 things: appease the cities in Flanders and Brabant and marry smart. But if he could do those two things I don't see why he could not retry the middle kingdom (but stop at Switzerland)
What did Philip the Fair achieve?
 

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